Dr. Furface
One small step for me
Best looking RAF plane ever - and with the coolest name. It was so cool they even flew one into the ocean in Thunderball!
The British Vulcan bomber plane - news and discussion
- Thread starter longdog
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Lemon Eddy
Disliked by dwyer
I think we can all agree that there are better uses for any kind of money than Wayne Rooney.
mauvais
on reddit or something
I'm not fussed about the past of it, not that it was ever used. Noone's celebrating that are they, just the engineering and maybe memories of it. However it's a HUGE amount of money thrown at something that has such limited life - the airframe is rated to so many hours and then that's it, no more flying, ever. The cost per flight hour must be insane, and there are better uses for that.
pogofish
Testicle Hairstyle
Yes - In as much as the UK's nuclear arsenal has never quite been fully independent. Even before the 1958 US/UK defence treaty, we were substantially reliant on the US for certain materials and aspects of nuke design and technology, although we were fully conversant with others due to our participation in the Manhattan Project.
The Vulcan (along with the other V-Bombers, The Victor and Valiant) were our own and built to carry the UK's first generation pre-treaty A-bombs, Vulcans were then adapted to second gen and beyond, incl US designs plus an early form of cruise missile. Then they were reduced to a conventional bombing and tanker role.
pogofish
Testicle Hairstyle
Not quite so - Its airframe rating refers to service flying, which is a lot more taxing than anything they will ask of it today.
Over the last few years, the plane has been completely stripped, found to be in excellent condition structurally/mechanically, then fully renovated and its current civillian flying licence as a historic aircraft restricts it to flight in only the very best weather conditions, so it should be capable of flying around for an awful lot longer than its design lifespan.
Much like the Lancaster (Who shared the same designer!) and other historic aircraft in the RAF's own historic flight.
mauvais
on reddit or something
I thought the airworthiness certificate would only allow so many hours. I may be wrong though - I read something yesterday that suggested it was actually quite a long time and the engines were the shortest-lived component.
I do find the amount of money they need to raise to be a bit much in the current climate. It's something like £300,000 that they say will keep them out of administration - I can't find any hints as to how long this will keep it flying for. They say £19,000 an hour for actual flight costs. They also employ people full time. At the end of the day it's donations so fair play but whilst I appreciate its displays, I don't think it's in any way good value for money, especially in the long term (now that's it's been restored to flight for some time).
I do find the amount of money they need to raise to be a bit much in the current climate. It's something like £300,000 that they say will keep them out of administration - I can't find any hints as to how long this will keep it flying for. They say £19,000 an hour for actual flight costs. They also employ people full time. At the end of the day it's donations so fair play but whilst I appreciate its displays, I don't think it's in any way good value for money, especially in the long term (now that's it's been restored to flight for some time).
pogofish
Testicle Hairstyle
Yes - The cert will need a periodic renewal. This is not strictly related to its service/design airframe life as the aircraft will have to undergo a technical evaluation each time and the lower stress of its civillian operations will be taken into account. Yes, I think the engines were either fully replaced or blueprinted as part of its renovation and do have a long time left on them but of course they also need almost constant maintenance.
Yes, it is an obscene amount of money and they have spent a vast amount getting it here but as you say, they have done this mostly via donations and small-scale technical sponsorship (large scale sponsorship has been ruled-out due to the current economic mess), There was a lottery grant as well but that was only a small part of the total cost. So if folk want to donate that is fine IMO.
When you see how popular the Vulcan is at airshows, you can appreciate how a lot of folk are glad to see it still flying. Personally, I've never seen approx 50 000 people giving anything a standing ovation before!
Yes, it is an obscene amount of money and they have spent a vast amount getting it here but as you say, they have done this mostly via donations and small-scale technical sponsorship (large scale sponsorship has been ruled-out due to the current economic mess), There was a lottery grant as well but that was only a small part of the total cost. So if folk want to donate that is fine IMO.
When you see how popular the Vulcan is at airshows, you can appreciate how a lot of folk are glad to see it still flying. Personally, I've never seen approx 50 000 people giving anything a standing ovation before!
DownwardDog
Well-Known Member
Lots of the rotable components will be hour or cycle limited so sooner or later they're going to run out of something important that would have to be made from scratch. All the 250k will do is push the OSD back 6 months - total and utter waste of money. It's fucking dangerous apart from anything else; how are they keeping the crew current with no sim and so few flying hours?
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
a lot of the cost is also to do with the level of ground crew cover they need to fly it, a standard air craft needs a small amount of tenders and fire crew just in case the vulcan needs a ridiclious amount if the CAA actually relaxed the rules there then it'd allow for greater use and lower costs...
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*Miss Daisy*
Suck a Big Hairy....
Wicked aircraft!
Seen it a Bournemouth Air Festival last year ( would seriously recommend going to it - this year was a bit wet and windy tho)
It flew low and the sound was amazing - went right through me body
Seen it a Bournemouth Air Festival last year ( would seriously recommend going to it - this year was a bit wet and windy tho)
It flew low and the sound was amazing - went right through me body
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
I can remember a Vulcan doing a slow banking manoeuvre over our neighbourhood when I was a toddler in about 1960. It was a totally awe inspiring sight, and despite my subsequent views on nuclear weapons I still think it's a beautiful machine.
Not sure what business it had circling over Luton though.
Not sure what business it had circling over Luton though.
pogofish
Testicle Hairstyle
Not sure what business it had circling over Luton though.
IIRC, Luton is about bang in the middle of the three main Vullcan bases of the early 60s - Waddington, Scampton and Gaydon.
mattie
missing in inaction
As it turns out, I've arranged to meet a mate tonight and his dad used to fly Vulcans.
That's all I have to add, really.
Regarding the engines and their service life, I was going to question whether Condorde variant Olympus engines might be used, but unlike the Vulcan variants they've got reheat which would make me suspect they're the same in name only.
That's all I have to add, really.
Regarding the engines and their service life, I was going to question whether Condorde variant Olympus engines might be used, but unlike the Vulcan variants they've got reheat which would make me suspect they're the same in name only.
mattie
missing in inaction
Are they really? That surprises me, they were pretty crude and dirty engines. What other aircraft do they power?
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
pogofish
Testicle Hairstyle
I don't think any current aircraft uses them - They now power several different classes of naval vessel for several countries and are used in large scale industrial compressors - eg for pipelines.
There was a US-licenced version of the Olympus as well IIRC
mattie
missing in inaction
Ah, right - I knew there was a marine and industrial variant, I hadn't realised it was the same engine!
likesfish
You can't park here sir
lovely thing bonkers appeal to get the thing flying and keep it flying bet the CAA regret ever green lighting it.
read vulcan 607 its only military mission more heath robinson than a military mission.
one of the vulcans ended up in rio with an armed missile
keeping the brazilians from asking too many questions before somebody turned up to make it safe
read vulcan 607 its only military mission more heath robinson than a military mission.
one of the vulcans ended up in rio with an armed missile
keeping the brazilians from asking too many questions before somebody turned up to make it safe
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
I can remember a Vulcan doing a slow banking manoeuvre over our neighbourhood when I was a toddler in about 1960. It was a totally awe inspiring sight, and despite my subsequent views on nuclear weapons I still think it's a beautiful machine.
Not sure what business it had circling over Luton though.
they'd take off and land at Thurleigh along with F111 AWACS and a number of other aircraft which officially never went there...
I have old photos somewhere I took as a kid...
Where I went to school in Lincs from 1979 - 1985, we were a bit TOO used to the "lovely" sound of the Vulcans, which used to take off and fly around Waddington (3 miles away) or Scampton (10 miles away I think) every day, at least once, several one after the other for the first 3 years or so at my school.
You'd be sitting in a classroom, teacher "chalking and talking" through the lesson, and this jet roar would get louder, and the teacher would just have to stop speaking and just stand there for half a minute til the sound died down and they could carry on. Then a few mins later the next one would go over. Etc.
At that time they were still part of Britain's nuclear deterrent, so were always ready to be told "off you go, its WW3, Moscow's that way, and in the unlikely event that you make it back, expect the UK to be a radioactive wasteland, and all your friends and family will be dead! Cheers!"
At least we were re-assured that had the Cold War ever become a Hot War, living between these two RAF bases, there was absolutely no point in us stockpiling baked beans or anything!
I would have thought that if they manage to keep this last one flying, the low number of hours flown each year would mean they could keep it going for quite a while.
And also, the way things are going, the RAF might need it back before long....
Giles..
You'd be sitting in a classroom, teacher "chalking and talking" through the lesson, and this jet roar would get louder, and the teacher would just have to stop speaking and just stand there for half a minute til the sound died down and they could carry on. Then a few mins later the next one would go over. Etc.
At that time they were still part of Britain's nuclear deterrent, so were always ready to be told "off you go, its WW3, Moscow's that way, and in the unlikely event that you make it back, expect the UK to be a radioactive wasteland, and all your friends and family will be dead! Cheers!"
At least we were re-assured that had the Cold War ever become a Hot War, living between these two RAF bases, there was absolutely no point in us stockpiling baked beans or anything!
I would have thought that if they manage to keep this last one flying, the low number of hours flown each year would mean they could keep it going for quite a while.
And also, the way things are going, the RAF might need it back before long....
Giles..
Looks like the appeal to raise money to keep it flying reached its first taget!
Vulcan To The Sky web site
Giles..
Vulcan To The Sky web site
Giles..
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