THe British Empire - how did they pull it off?

[grimble]

"Whatever happens we have got
The Maxim Gun, and they have not."

Hilaire Belloc, The Modern Traveller

 

[FruitandNut]

Yes, I forgot that one!

 

[Roadkill]

Same reasons as the British economy did so much better than that of the rest of Europe during the eighteenth century, which in turn meant that Britain could neutralise first the Dutch and then the French and Spanish, and then use its naval power and control of world trade routes to enrich itself.

Coal, steel and steam engines came later: the political foundations of empire were in place by 1800.

 

[Andy the Don]

Adopting the Dutch banking system (ie the formation of the Bank of England, which allowed the government to borrow money on the strength of its reserves) of the "Glorious Revolution" of William of Orange.

 

[newbie]

Same reasons as the British economy did so much better than that of the rest of Europe during the eighteenth century, which in turn meant that Britain could neutralise first the Dutch and then the French and Spanish, and then use its naval power and control of world trade routes to enrich itself.

Coal, steel and steam engines came later: the political foundations of empire were in place by 1800.

Are you talking about joint stock companies or did you have something else in mind?

 

[Roadkill]

Are you talking about joint stock companies or did you have something else in mind?

What, for why the british economy outgrew its rivals?

Not specifically, no. I was mre thinking of the accounting system that Andy the Don points out, plus the relatively well educated population, commercially-minded political institutions, favourable geographical situation and climate, poitical stability and a few ohter things.

 

[newbie]

Fair enough. There's a strong(ish) argument that the accumulation of capital via joint stockholdings both funded the merchant adventurers and provided the impetus for overseas expansion. Speculative ventures for the East India company, Hudsons Bay and so on were underwritten by Lloyds, and the profits helped provide the capital for the BoE and other banks (JSCs all, including the BoE).

 

[kakuma]

one theory i've heard is that because england was a lot more religiously tolerant than it's european rivals (specially towards jews) a lot of skilled people came to britain as refugees and helped our technology improve faster

 

[Roadkill]

Fair enough. There's a strong(ish) argument that the accumulation of capital via joint stockholdings both funded the merchant adventurers and provided the impetus for overseas expansion. Speculative ventures for the East India company, Hudsons Bay and so on were underwritten by Lloyds, and the profits helped provide the capital for the BoE and other banks (JSCs all, including the BoE).

Oh I'd agree with all of that, but it's not just limited to capital accumulation IMO.

 

[undercover]

Ooh... and flags.

We stole countries with the cunning use of flags. Just sail around the world and stick a flag in. ‘I claim India for Britain!’ And they're going ‘You can't claim us, we live here! Five hundred million of us!’ ‘Do you have a flag? … No flag, no country!’

Sorry, had to put the ful quote in....

 

[Hollis]

What, for why the british economy outgrew its rivals?

Not specifically, no. I was mre thinking of the accounting system that Andy the Don points out, plus the relatively well educated population, commercially-minded political institutions, favourable geographical situation and climate, poitical stability and a few ohter things.

Yes - a combination of them all really. - The joint stock company, insurance provision and a banking system.. all providing mechanisms for risk taking, risk spreading and failure. The engines of capital growth!

 

[boohoo]

The slave trade bought in a lot of money....

 

[ska invita]

I still dont see how such a small group of people didnt get booted out quicker.

And does anyone have a little bit of detail about how the middle east ended up being divided by the UK post war?

 

[FruitandNut]

The Industrial age was built on the 'Age of Discovery' and trading. I believe it was De Tocqueville who mentioned some British merchants being richer than princes. It was their surplus wealth and the aforementioned neonate banking system that afforded the move from proto-industrialisation to the full blown steam driven model.

niksativa - Blame it on Empire (British and Ottoman), Balfour, the League of Nations mandate, oil, post-war decline of British control, the Yanks and the French; oh, and also the political stew that was always there.

 

[ska invita]

Thanks.
Found this little thing in wikipedia that was useful for me, re: Britain and the Ottomans:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Middle_East#European_domination

Although all history is debatable, reading this paragraph in the link made me appreciate modern political events so much better - its a total blank spot for me, and at least now I get an inkling of whats been happening.

I remember growing up and watching the news about ISrael and Palestine and thinking they automaticaly presume you know so mcuh, and never being able to get a handle an what was really going on.

Explaining this kind of history should be a priority for the BBC - History channels also need to get over this obsession with the Nazi's and look at the bigger picture.

 

[lostexpectation]

surely they would great leverage from local wannabees doing a deal with them to do over their local enemy and then the british get foothold and drain whatever they they want.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

surely they would great leverage from local wannabees doing a deal with them to do over their local enemy and then the british get foothold and drain whatever they they want.

Yes: divide and conquer.

 

[nino_savatte]

What was the secret of British success - they didnt really have that much military might, from what I gather.

In particular, how did Britain end up controlling the Middle East after The War?

History 101 time for me!

Sykes-Picot and the League of Nations mandate. Sykes-Picot was possibly the biggest travesty in history; all of it was put together by a pair of civil servants working for their respective governments. Britain got the best (oil producing) bits, while France got mythical bits like Syria and Lebanon (the former Crusader kingdom of Tripoli).

Britain was already aware of oil in Kirkuk at the end of the 19th century, though it was getting much of its oil from Persia. But WWI presented the Empire with a tempting opportunity: the Ottoman Empire had been pretty weak since the end of the 18th century and its lands were being coveted by practically every power under the sun (the Eastern Question), when the Turks sided with the Central Powers, this provided Britain with the excuse it needed to march into the Middle East and seize territory. The French were mightily pissed off about this and managed to get a slice of the oil via the Red Line Agreement.

One thing that I forgot to add was that the Emir of Kuwait sought and received assistance from Britain in 1899 while it was still part of the Ottoman Empire, but the Sultanate was weak and allowed Kuwait to slip from its grasp.