ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
dylanredefined said:they call themselves the idf if you start calling them the iof no one knows what you are talking about .
And that's your point?
You needn't have bothered, mate. It sucks arse.
the beach incident
- Thread starter likesfish
- Start date
And that's your point?
You needn't have bothered, mate. It sucks arse.
Panda: Sorry, but preemptive and proactive action does not translate into "invade."
Dylan: People use the abbreviation "IOF" not to signify "Israeli Offensive Forces" but to denigrate Israel and its military by labeling it "Israeli Occupational Forces." It is left leaning nonsense.
Cakes: I will do my best to remember and provide the requested links but it is a pretty well known fact.
Dylan: People use the abbreviation "IOF" not to signify "Israeli Offensive Forces" but to denigrate Israel and its military by labeling it "Israeli Occupational Forces." It is left leaning nonsense.
Cakes: I will do my best to remember and provide the requested links but it is a pretty well known fact.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Even when it included invading parts of Lebanon?rachamim18 said:
And PLEASE don't use bullshit Orwellisms like "proactive". It makes you sound like (vomit) a politician.
Panda: Israel NEVER "invaded" Lebanon. Bashir Gemeyel's sovereign government INVITED Israel [in fact begged it] to aid them in their struggle agsint both the PLO and Syria [mutual enemies]. This of course intersected with Israeli objectives and the rest is clear.
I think proactive is a fine word [smile].
I think proactive is a fine word [smile].
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Such irony! I'm surprised you didn't laugh yourself into a cardiac arrest when typing the words "Gemeyel's sovereign government", given the minority it actually governed, the lack of power the "government" had, and its' willingness to suck Israel's dick to retain power (and the ability to milk the economy).rachamim18 said:
It is fine if you're into politico or management-speak or other faux-intellectual terminology. It's not much use to anyone else though.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Referring to anyone as degenerate is not necessarily unacceptable, but I hope this issue isn't going to become the new ME forum flamebait topic.
I hope so too, so I'll just respond to the little grass once and expect him to take the moderation view without further comment.
I can list hundreds of instances of immoral actions by the IOF. Assuming that the IOF did not always perform immoral actions it follows that the behaviour of the IOF has degenerated.
To reinforce this assertion, the Israeli high court recently ( 2005) ruled that the IOF must cease using Palestian civilians as human shields during military operations. The IOF were acting immorally. Such behaviour is illegal under the Geneva Conventions.
The use of 'degenerate' was, and is, valid.
I can list hundreds of instances of immoral actions by the IOF. Assuming that the IOF did not always perform immoral actions it follows that the behaviour of the IOF has degenerated.
To reinforce this assertion, the Israeli high court recently ( 2005) ruled that the IOF must cease using Palestian civilians as human shields during military operations. The IOF were acting immorally. Such behaviour is illegal under the Geneva Conventions.
The use of 'degenerate' was, and is, valid.
moono said:
As you are no-doubt aware, "degenerate" is used purely as an insult rather than something constructive.
Usually, in its common meaning, it does not refer to someone who has fallen or declined - it refers to someone who is, was, and will always be intrinsically inferior.
Referring to someone as "degenerate" is highly offensive, as you well know.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
astronaut said:
Messrs Webster and Oxford place much more emphasis on the subjectiveness of the phrase and place it's most usual application on "morality" (possibly the ultimate subjective position) rather than physical being.
LumpenProle
you rang m'lud..
astronaut said:
This seems a somewhat paranoid interpretation. And is not supported by any dictionary definition or general usage I'm aware of.
Strange word to use - inferior.
ViolentPanda said:
Degenerate also means deviance or clinical mental illness.
When the Nazis referred to art or music as degenerate, they weren't simply offended by the morality of the work.
They were offended by the Jewishness or blackness of it.
Entartete = degenerate
http://fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/arts/musDegen.htm
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
astronaut said:Degenerate also means deviance or clinical mental illness.
When the Nazis referred to art or music as degenerate, they weren't simply offended by the morality of the work.
They were offended by the Jewishness or blackness of it.
Entartete = degenerate
http://fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/arts/musDegen.htm
But we're not talking about historical meaning(s), we're talking about meaning(s) prevalent NOW.
By the way, playing the "nazis" card is more than a bit pathetic. Godwin's Law and all that. There were plenty of other examples you could have used rather than the easiest one.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
So you know better than talented academics the worlds over?astronaut said:
get over yourself.
So the fact that Godwin's Law occasionally gets misused is your licence to use a cheap "conversation-stopper" example whenever you wish to?
Sheesh.
Such as the 50 years of eugenics research that preceded Hitler's political emergence.
Such as Lombroso and his "criminal types".
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
Of course not, and I've been very restrained so as to avoid falling into that tit-for-tat, qui pro quo-style exchange, by not pointing out that the degenerate use of grammar is unacceptable, and by not revealing that really the M.E. conflict is all about ME, and everyone else who disagrees with me is an extremist and has blood on their hands and should be censored/banned/libelled*.FridgeMagnet said:
A degenerate is something which has moved away from it's former state, to a lesser state, yes? Potentially, things can degenerate to a point whereby the old state cannot be returned to.
To describe IDF as degenerate isn't unacceptable. IDF needs to buck it's ideas up, and it is criticised constantly inside Israel, so I don't support astronaut's objection is to it's use, nor see it as divisive, or unusual.
*circle preferred smear-style
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
moono said:
I don't think it will have a choice. The crew on the gunboat might have been acting under orders, or they might have been acting on another anti-Government agenda, and be from US-charity funded illegal settlements in Occupied Palestine, and it's imperative to find out whose orders they were acting on.
We should be asking question such as 'whom do they serve?'. We already know that far-rightists in the IDF were not happy with Peretz' appointment.
We already know that in the US there is a big Christian Zionist support for Jewish settlers to defy the Israeli Government for giving up on 'Greater Israel'. We already know US charities funnel arms and funding for anti-Government agitation and anti-disengagement terrorism, but question is, will the US act to freeze these charities funds, or will it be Noraid all over again?
Panda: Regardless of Gemayel's lack of power, he still was mandated to rule, by election.
As for his bowing to Israel, after he was assasinated his brother took a totally different course.
Sorry you do not like the word "proactive" but it is fine and accepted.
As for his bowing to Israel, after he was assasinated his brother took a totally different course.
Sorry you do not like the word "proactive" but it is fine and accepted.
well it's not hard to believe that brain-dead moron robots find ways to excuse the madness and barbarism, no. Wonder how forgiving you'd be if it were your loved ones being butchered? But then what really can one expect from someone so low as to worship Blair & co?Lock&Light said:
X-77 said:well it's not hard to believe that brain-dead moron robots find ways to excuse the madness and barbarism, no. Wonder how forgiving you'd be if it were your loved ones being butchered? But then what really can one expect from someone so low as to worship Blair & co?
Your 'contribution' to this thread has been duly noted, judged and found unworthy.
moono said:
That is exactly your problem. You are simply blind to anything not fitting into your own blinkered view of the world. Your contributions are among the most sadly negative of any of the one-sided screechers on Urban.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
there's accidents and recklessness.
if theres a firefight going on and civillians get caught in the middle thats an accident.
firing artillery onto a beach in daylight when you can see civillians and theres no obvious threat is reckless
though an independant human rights type was saying it might well be an israeli
shell that was left over or had failed to go off and had been rigged up as a mine
if theres a firefight going on and civillians get caught in the middle thats an accident.
firing artillery onto a beach in daylight when you can see civillians and theres no obvious threat is reckless
though an independant human rights type was saying it might well be an israeli
shell that was left over or had failed to go off and had been rigged up as a mine
moono said:
And you have still failed to learn that just saying something doesn't make it true.
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