The Baader Meinhof Complex

[audiotech]

'Yellow River, Yellow River....'

 

[durruti02]

The 'Red Army Faction' and the 'Red Brigades' were such appallingly misguided little groups that they make even daft Trotlets like the Social Workers seem almost sane and sensible.

too right .. arrogent middle class elitist vanguardist control freak temper tantrum parasitical politics that is deeply damaging to attempts to create horizontal democratic movements ..

 

[DJWrongspeed]

Not knowing much about the group this is a pretty good attempt at an overall history, it's good film material, what an insane lot they were, but i guess you had to be there living it in '68 to get what the world was like. We had the IRA and Germany had the RAF bringing the country to it's knees. Uli Edel is a great film maker.

Was reminded how strong & determined German women are.

 

[audiotech]

Not knowing much about the group this is a pretty good attempt at an overall history, it's good film material, what an insane lot they were, but i guess you had to be there living it in '68 to get what the world was like.

I was around in '68, the year itself was fine until these idiots turned up.

The Tet Offensive begins the year. A series of events, involving agitations and strikes in France, bring it to the verge of revolution. The Prague Spring. Mass movements against racism and war and for civil rights are everywhere.

What does Andreas Baader and Gudrun Ensslin of the RAF choose to do in this, their first "action" of this year, in 1968? Explode a bomb in 2 department stores in Frankfurt ffs! Weally wadical!

Radical groups such as these are just self-appointed "avengers of the people", assuaging their middle-class guilt in the process.

The problem is that the actions of these groups usually lead to more repression on broader, democratic social movements.

They serve to engender fear and passivity.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

It's a shame the film doesn't really get into the minds of Baader and Ensslin, the key members, and only really concentrates on Meinhof's transformation. The opening scene with the riot about the Shah of Persia is brilliant cinema though.

 

[Maggot]

Radical groups such as these are just self-appointed "avengers of the people", assuaging their middle-class guilt in the process.

 

[nino_savatte]

'Yellow River, Yellow River....'

Criminal record.

 

[goldenecitrone]

When are we going to get a film about the Angry Brigade? With Simon Pegg and Russell Brand.

 

[audiotech]

too right .. arrogent middle class elitist vanguardist control freak temper tantrum parasitical politics that is deeply damaging to attempts to create horizontal democratic movements ..

The RAF were no vanguardists.

In a phamplet published in 1969 titled Listen, Marxist! anarchist Murray Bookchin argues, that revolutionaries must be organized to "present the most advanced demands" and "formulate the immediate tasks that should be performed to advance the revolutionary process," providing "the boldest elements in action and in the decision-making organs of the revolution."

Now, that's what I would call 'vanguardism'?

 

[phildwyer]

there have been better films already, I think.

Yessiree Boss. Fassbinder's "Germany in Winter" pretty much did the job.

 

[butchersapron]

Tell me MC5, have you read Listen Marxist! or just the D'amato article that mentions it in passing?

If you have, are you saying that you agree with its central arguments?

 

[audiotech]

Tell me MC5, have you read Listen Marxist! or just the D'amato article that mentions it in passing?

If you have, are you saying that you agree with its central arguments?

Which D'amato article?

Let's hear your views on it and see if we agree shall we?

 

[butchersapron]

Is that yes or a no? Because the central thurst of the article, which i fully agree with, is a comprehensive critique of the Leninist/trotsky-ite conception of the Party and its role - historical, theoretical and currently. That's the section titled The Myth of the Party which constitutes about 1/3 of the whole text. It (and the remainder of the text) actually argues for the opposite of your positions and pretty vehemently, so it's an odd choice for you to pick to defend your postions...

 

[audiotech]

I think that to present 'revolutionary demands' in any 'organs of the revolution', there will be a need for the 'boldest elements in action and in the decision-making organs' to 'advance the process'.

Not 'opposite of my position' at all.

 

[butchersapron]

You've not read it have you?

 

[audiotech]

You've not read it have you?

Some of it.

 

[Mr Moose]

Can you imagine what the world would have been like had the likes of the Baader Meinhof managed to inspire a mass movement and deliver a revolution?

I suspect a world strong on snappy T-shirts and low on social justice.

 

[Mr Moose]

...Though I take my hat off to Douglas that he achieved so much mayhem following a successful stint in the airforce and despite the loss of his legs.

 

[audiotech]

Saw him star in 'Reach for the Handrail'.

 

[Bakunin]

There's a good book on the German terrorist scene of that time written by someone who was very closely involved with it.

Michael 'Bommi' Baumann wrote a book called 'Wie Alles Anfing' ('How It All Began') which the German state did a great deal to try and supress. He wasn't a full member of RAF, but was instead largely involved with the 'June 2nd Movement.'

 

[Taxamo Welf]

There's a good book on the German terrorist scene of that time written by someone who was very closely involved with it.

Michael 'Bommi' Baumann wrote a book called 'Wie Alles Anfing' ('How It All Began') which the German state did a great deal to try and supress. He wasn't a full member of RAF, but was instead largely involved with the 'June 2nd Movement.'

that is pretty much the worst fucking book i have ever read.

The man is actually retarded.

Totally fucking useless in every way. Sorry but I'm still pissed off that someone actually suggested i buy and read this - it wasn't you was it?

 

[Bakunin]

that is pretty much the worst fucking book i have ever read.

The man is actually retarded.

Totally fucking useless in every way. Sorry but I'm still pissed off that someone actually suggested i buy and read this - it wasn't you was it?

Don't think it was me, no.

I find it an interesting read, though. The combination of aggressive terrorism, coupled with the naivety shown by the members of the June 2nd Movement, makes for an interesting read, IMHO.

It's also what is, in my experience anyway, a pretty rare glimpse into the mindset of terrorists, admittedly lower level ones.

 

[butchersapron]

Didn't go and see this in the end as tickets were a tenner, pluys bus fare. Fuck that.

 

[Das Uberdog]

I'm now looking for books with a Marxist take on the Counter Culture - any suggestions, guys?

 

[Das Uberdog]

C'mon guyzzz, you're normally a wealth of information...

 

[Taxamo Welf]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1844541320/ref=ed_oe_p_olp

 

[Fledgling]

It's a shame the film doesn't really get into the minds of Baader and Ensslin, the key members, and only really concentrates on Meinhof's transformation. The opening scene with the riot about the Shah of Persia is brilliant cinema though.

Yeah well it moved far too fast to get into anyone's mind and thus it might have been more appropriate to drop the word complex, replacing it with "things that happened". Because that's what the film is, a list of events and some shagging. They didn't develop the investigation scenes enough, just short clips of musings.

Wouldn't mind watching the Legend of Rita though.

 

[durruti02]

Radical groups such as these are just self-appointed "avengers of the people", assuaging their middle-class guilt in the process.

The problem is that the actions of these groups usually lead to more repression on broader, democratic social movements.

They serve to engender fear and passivity.

wow D02 agrees totally with the smear artist ..

 

[audiotech]

wow D02 agrees totally with the smear artist ..

wow, big fucking deal strass artist ..

 

[durruti02]

fuck off prick