The Ashes 2019

Discussion in 'general sports' started by Monkeygrinder's Organ, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. Monkeygrinder's Organ

    Monkeygrinder's Organ Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager

    As everyone loves cricket today!

    The Ashes series kicks off at Edgbaston on 1st August (probably a better venue for England than Lords).

    England will pick Jofra Archer surely. Maybe Jason Roy as well seeing as no-one else has managed to nail down an opening spot.

    alex_ and Badgers like this.
  2. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    I think you are right that England will go both.

    I've no problem with Archer but I don't see Roy as not a test match opener. Look at the problems the kiwis gave him with a moving white ball in the final. England might go with a top four of Burns, Sibley, Roy, Root.

    I'd be very surprised if England did not pick him initially but Broad's place might be under some pressure - you've Anderson, Stokes, Woakes, Wood and Archer (plus Curran but I think he's behind all the others in the rank) - and his form for Notts has not been great. .
    SpookyFrank and littlebabyjesus like this.
  3. Lord Camomile

    Lord Camomile Lemonade socialist

    I will enjoy listening on TMS :)
    mwgdrwg, marty21 and a_chap like this.
  4. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Archer will definitely be in. If Anderson is fit, I think Broad should not play. I'd put both Woakes and Wood ahead of him at the moment. Harsh, but as rs says, he's struggled this year with Notts, while Anderson's done really well with Lancs (albeit in 2nd div). That has to matter. Broad himself first won his place due to a sentiment-free dropping of Hoggard. It may be his turn now to suffer the same fate.

    Again as rs says, I'm not convinced about Roy against a red Duke's ball. But he'll probably be in, by default as much as anything else. Root should be at three. Smith, Williamson and Kohli have all managed captaining and batting at three scoring shit-loads. Time Root stepped up.
    Ted Striker likes this.
  5. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    Root's record at 3 is poor, whereas he's probably England's best batsman when batting 4. He should be able to bat at 3 but stats don't lie and if he's the best batsman he should bat where he's most likely to be the most effective.

    I think a lot of Ian Bell's England career was wasted by trying to make him into a 3 when actually he had a tremendous record at 5 /6. Stick with what works and change things that don't.
    Ted Striker likes this.
  6. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Root's recent record at four isn't all that.

    Bell was a five/six, I agree. Root isn't. He's a three/four. Like Williamson or Kohli or Smith. And given the absence of a Dravid-like three to go in before him, he should be at three imo.
  7. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    Even if he's not scoring any runs? Not much point him failing at 3 and then Vince coming in at 4 and failing. He doesn't seem to back himself at 4. Its all square pegs and round holes. They should go out and find a 3, its not Bairstow for sure.
  8. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Not sure the stats back you up, though. He averages 40 at 3, 48 at 4, 70-odd at five. Five is actually his most productive position. But, importantly, since the start of 2018, he averages well under 40 batting mostly at 4. Root at 4, in recent times, hasn't been so good.
  9. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    I'll call it now. Anderson won't last the series. Hope Archer does. He's going to be brilliant.
  10. Casual Observer

    Casual Observer binoculars

    Jason Roy is test class but in the middle order not as an opener. Also, he's only played (I think) one 4-day game in the last two years so hasn't had much red ball practice. His technique is much better than it was (previously more bottom hand dominant, thus found it difficult to adjust to the late swinging ball). Roy's character and style of batting say 4, 5, 6 not 1, 2, 3.

    Root needs to bat at 3 regardless of past form in that position. He's patient and our most technically correct batsman, ideally suited for that place in the order. Not a fan of one day form dictating test selection, but the World Cup underlines why he's the ideal man - scored more runs than anyone else and at a slower pace than those around him.

    Haven't paid enough attention to know who should open with Burns.

    Weather and venue should be more of a factor with the bowlers. Might be worth playing an extra seamer and going with no spinners at all at Lords and Trent Bridge for example.
  11. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    How does Roy fit into the team there, though? That's the problem. England already have at least three players suited to batting 5/6/7. It's the top order that's the problem.

    I don't mind punting on players for tests from one-day form. It can work. Warner for Aus, for instance, and Buttler partially successful for England. But Roy's got to open Sehway/Warner-style if he plays, no? tbh I have no idea if Roy is test class or not. But only one way to find out.
  12. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    Boycott in today’s Telegraph.

    “They will pick you Jason because they have not got anyone else.”

    To be fair, he wishes him good luck.
  13. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Regarding other potential openers, Sibley has the numbers this year. I know he's highly rated. A new name in the Essex ranks, a certain AN Cook, is also churning out the runs...

    My preferred bowling attack: Archer and Anderson opening, then Woakes, Stokes and Leach. Woakes can bat at 8, so no problem with batting depth. Moeen's batting is shot. Is Leach the better bet just on their bowling? I think he may be. Honourable mention to Wood - if the wicket suits, he should come in at some point. Broad doesn't feature.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
    Badgers likes this.
  14. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    Roy batted at 3 in the final two Championship matches of last season, both dead rubbers with Surrey already champions. I'm fairly certain that's the only first class cricket he's played since 2017 due to a combination of England duty, IPL and injury. Surrey used him as a makeshift opener a few years ago without success.

    Dom Sibley is the obvious choice if they go for an orthodox opener on county form. I think he may have passed 1,000 first class runs for the season today and he'd faced about 50% more deliveries than anyone else in Championship cricket according to an article I read last week. He bats time, but I can see him getting bogged down and being third man out just before lunch for about 20 or 30.

    I don't see any other convincing option apart from the other regular ODI opening bat Jonny Bairstow, who has the advantage over Roy of being not just an experienced big match opener but an experienced Test cricketer. Obviously you wouldn't want him keeping wicket and opening, which gives the ideal opportunity to bring back Ben Foakes, the best available wicketkeeper, to bat at 7.

    Rory Burns and Joe Denly are the men in possession for the other top three places and have had moderate seasons so far without other people making a compelling case to displace them.

    I'm a fan of Jack Leach but since he was discarded after Sri Lanka there's no logic to drop Moeen Ali, a far better batsman despite recent batting form, to bring him back now.

    Wood is in possession after the final Test in the Caribbean but is notoriously injury prone, Anderson is currently injured. Archer seems to be ripe for a Test debut, so it looks like Broad may be edged out unless Wood or Anderson is unfit. (Of course there's also a Test against Ireland next week.)

    My XI: Burns, Bairstow, Denly or Roy, Root*, Stokes, Buttler, Foakes+, Ali, Archer, Wood, Anderson. (12th man Broad.)
    Monkeygrinder's Organ likes this.
  15. Mumbles274

    Mumbles274 running from law and the press and the parents

    Being a man of Kent I'd like to see Denly get a chance. He's batting well so far against the red ball and this is in his first year in Div 1
  16. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    Bairstow as opener is a walking wicket. 3 was too high for him in the Windies so to push him up further - just to squeeze Foakes (only averaging 30 in the CC this year) in - makes no sense to me.

    Even at the peak of his red ball form Bairstow's technique was not good enough to open, and he's concentrated on white ball so much over the last 18+ months that I think he's actually gone backwards a little in the first class game.\

    Likewise leaving Woakes also doesn't make sense to me (especially if you aren't going to play Broad), his record in England blows away Wood's. And he can contribute with the bat, allowing you to play Leach if you want - though I think England will stick with Ali.
  17. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    Who doesn't want to see a team featuring Foakes, Woakes and Stokes?
    JimW and marty21 like this.
  18. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    Some blokes
    JimW, marty21, Pink Panther and 2 others like this.
  19. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank Self-cleaning oven, the whole bit.

    Anderson is irreplaceable but it would be nice if someone stepped up in this series looking like they at least wanted the job of lead bowler in tests. Archer seems to have the brains and temprement to go with his talent so who knows.
  20. Cerberus

    Cerberus Uptown top wankin


    I’ve noted Sibley’s rise up the numbers charts. Currently playing for the Lions v Ausxi. Would fear for him though in what has become a poison chalice position.
    I don’t think the selectors can ignore the clamour for Roy but as others have said, lack of red ball cricket plus looking more like a test middle order batsman may be his undoing.
    Burns is the man in possession and although he hasn’t set the world alight this year, may be the ling term replacement for Chef. Denly the other man - think he’ll be left out of the squad.

    Wicketkeeper - Buttler? Foakes? YJB? Who knows??

    Spinners : think they’ll pick Moeen for Edgbaston and see how it goes. Leach next. Rashid might need to R&R and/or surgery on his shoulder.

    Pace: on paper the cupboard is well stocked. However, Archer is reportedly carrying an injury which the media keep saying will keep him out for the first test. Jimmy has been injured. Wood is always one ball from an injury and might be carrying one anyway. I’d expect to see Woakes play at his home ground. Stokes obvs. Curran has just taken 6-95 v Aussies XI. Broad may miss out.

    Let Root bat at 4. Fucking frustrating but his seems adamant.

    Team I think they’ll play at Edgbaston if all fit:

    Burns, Roy, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Woakes, Moeen, Archer, Wood, Jimmy

    Injuries will probably change the above as might the Ireland game.

    Having said all that...what the fuck do I know?? I will be at day one Edgbaston though:cool:
  21. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    It's his first year for a little while but he has played in Division 1 for both Middlesx and Kent before returning to Kent. He's just made a big century this week.

    You could use exactly the same reasoning for Roy though, and plenty of people are talking him up. Not sure I fancy seeing him open with three slips and a gully behind him.
  22. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    I don't think Roy is a test opener (though I think he will be brought into the England test upper order), but at least in Roy's case you are bringing in someone new who has not made a place for themselves in the middle order.

    I don't think Bairstow has ever opened in first class cricket.
  23. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    Maybe they’ll give Jennings another chance.:facepalm:

    I think they will give Roy a couple of chances. I share everyone else’s entirely understandable reservations.

    Haven’t read about injury to Archer. Hope that’s not true. If you have no Anderson or Archer or Wood they have to pick Broad. Don’t even know if he’s been bowling, haven’t been following him.

    I’ve run out of patience with Moeen but they do like him and he came back really well from being dropped last time. Took a hat-trick, won a test, all of which was instantly forgotten by his detractors on here at least.

    Bairstow is the wicket-keeper, fairly sure he’ll burn down Lords if he isn’t.

    Time for new blood to step up. I have no confidence in this happening for anyone but Archer. I really think a lot rests on his shoulders for these Ashes.

    Root won’t be dancing down the pitch with wild slogs in a test. Runs will come from there.

    A lot depends on how we play, or play and miss, Starc. Smith is in unbelievable form as usual. And Warner too. Not sure I rate many more of them atm but those three are enough to win a series.
  24. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    If they can stay fit for the series the Australian bowling attack is very good - Starc, Cummins, Lyon, Hazelwood - but as you say batting is pretty bare outside Warner and Smith.
    planetgeli likes this.
  25. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    Yeah that’s true actually. Was being a bit unfair to the rest of the attack.
  26. Idaho

    Idaho blah blah blah

    I like this, but it feels like half a bowler too much and half a bat too light.

    We are going to need some proper opening batters.... Which is always our problem. I wouldn't care if they never got a run. All they have to do is face 15 overs, take the shine off the ball and the energy out of the bowlers.
    kabbes likes this.
  27. Zapp Brannigan

    Zapp Brannigan Built like a steakhouse, handles like a bistro

    Stokes is a dead cert to be the 4th quick; a proper all-rounder is key to getting the balance of the side. Fitness permitting, Anderson is a given to take the new ball.

    Which leaves 2 seam bowlers, which for me would be Woakes and Archer. Harsh on Stuart Broad, Sam Curran given his previous breakthrough, and especially Mark Wood, but Woakes would be the long term replacement for Anderson with the movement and variety he gets and Archer deserves a shot at Test cricket.

    Spinner, Moeen for me (and 99% of the time I'd pick at least one, especially one who can bat). Rashid is quality and would be in the squad, but Moeen in the Test format is for me the obvious pick. Leach would be more of a gamble, although a worthwhile one - nice to be picking from too many good spinners instead of as in previous years where lack of alternatives has played a big part.

    Root obviously, and Burns is the man in possession of the shirt to open. Bairstow to keep wicket, Buttler as a destructive middle order hitter (positions 5-7 interchangeable depending on circumstances).

    Which leaves...


    Roy is an interesting one. He deserves a go, partly through his white ball form and partly through lack of alternatives. Not convinced as an opener, and IMO any good no.3 should also be able to open - he might be facing the 2nd ball of an innings. I'd be tempted to push Root up to 3 and play Roy at 4, but I reckon Roy will be opening anyway.

    So still another opener/3 to find. All the alternatives (Wood, with Stokes mainly as a batsman, Bairstow to 3?) seem like a square peg/round hole kind of scenario. Just play a specialist top order batsman at the top of the order - Denley, Sibley?
    Idaho likes this.
  28. Casual Observer

    Casual Observer binoculars

    Root (c)
    Foakes (wk)
    Two from Woakes/Wood/Broad/Adil/Moeen

    Not happy with Bairstow opening but something has to give and it's either him or Roy. Don't expect Anderson or Archer to last the full series either (3rd and 5th tests are just 4 days after the 2nd and 4th). No place for Sam Curran sadly.
  29. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Interesting how few of us are making room for Broad. Given that Archer and Anderson are certainties and Stokes is the fourth seamer, that only really leaves one other space. I've never thought Sam Curran was a test-quality bowler. I love the idea of Mark Wood coming on first change and tearing in. Woakes can be ordinary at test level - I'd want proof that he's back to full pace before picking him, but his batting is a proper asset. If Broad could still bat, he might be in with a better chance.
  30. S☼I

    S☼I Where are the prophets? Where are the visionaries?

    Very casual cricket fan here.

    What's the difference in selecting players? I mean I know the difference between one day cricket and test matches in terms of rules and presumably patience over big hitting, but how does this translate to picking a test team? Who from.the WC winners misses out on the Ashes, and why?

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