The Argentinian goal wasn't that good !

[JTG]

Soccer? Soccer?!? Are you American?

Wimbledon starts next week I think. That Murray bloke is a right little mummys boy twat isn't he?

Turn your irony detector on please

 

[JTG]

Tbh, while I do think it's been incredibly overrated, I'm slagging it off because I get fed up of the 'England = crap, everything foreign = good' brigade.

As SH says, last 2 or 3 passes were great, the rest was the kind of keep ball which is OK to allow in your opponents' half but unforgivable in your own.

Serbia's qualifying record means nothing, there's always teams who storm through qualifying and then flop when it counts.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

If a Brazilian had scored Joe Cole's goal from last night, people would be jumping up and down about how amazing it was. Cole scores it and it's a fluke, etc etc.

 

[Termite Man]

It was a great goal what's up with you all? Next you'll be saying someone should've been picking up Carlos Alberto on the right for "that" goal. The Serbs didn't defend particularly well but so what. Just enjoy the goal for what it was.

Grumpy buggers

I'm not saying it wasn't a good or even great goal but a lot of fuss seems to be made of the "24 pass build up" which wasn't that great considering the Serbian defending . The final few passes were good , but the rest was just a simple knock about for the argentinians and something they probably do in training . That is why the serbs not defending very well is important , if they had pressured for the ball a bit more and there were still 24 passes then I'd be saying it's one of the best goals ever , but they didn't so I'm not ! Simple really !

 

[muser]

It's the sort of goal proclaimed to be the greatest ever by people who wear roll neck sweaters, live in Guildford, support Liverpool from their arm chairs and think that the 'Times' football supplement is the last word in 'soccer' writing.

How many goals did Serbia concede coming into the tournament, and surely if S&M are so bad shouldn't we have done that against T&T.

 

[Termite Man]

that kind of opposistion conceded ONE goal in qualifying.

And that is relevant why ? So serbia were defending like a bunch of amateurs but because they conceded 1 goal in qualifying then they automatically must be able to defend at the same standard every game . Idiot

 

[Termite Man]

How many goals did Serbia concede coming into the tournament,

see my post above

and surely if S&M are so bad shouldn't we have done that against T&T.

thats allready been answered

T&T and paraguay were competing for the ball , Serbia were not . That is the difference , why do people seem to be incapapble of seeing that !

although Argentina are better than England on current form so I doubt England could have done that against S&M !

 

[muser]

People complain about the Serbs not getting in enough tackles but that doesn't ring true for me.

Later in the game, sure, after having a man sent off and being 3-0 down they gave up a little bit but when Cambiasso scored it was still 1-0, the Serbs had just had a series of good chances and were certainly going in for the tackles because the game was still in the balance.

The reason the passing is so brilliant is because whenever the Argies were closed down the man in possession always had options thanks to the movement of his team-mates and the patience of their approach.

But more than that the passing suddenly accelerates in the last few phases as the team seem to instinctively and collectively understand that now is the time to pounce.

It goes from three touch very quickly to two-touch to one-touch passing in the blink of an eye completely vindicating Pekerman's football philosophy.

Here it is in its entirety with better commentary than Jonathan Pearce on the bbc. If you watch carefully they are closing the Argentinians down all the time, but the brilliance of the teamwork negates any of their defensive play:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KnOGx7DL-CQ&search=argentina serbia montenegro cambiasso

I think a lot of people are deluding themselves here. For the majority of the time the ball is being passed around in front of the Serbian attack and midfield.

Whenever the ball is passed into a dangerous position for the Serbs they quickly close the Argies down but they can't make any tackles because before they get remotely close the Argies have passed it to a teammate who has found a little bit of space.

The key is the hypnotic passing that lulls the Serbs into thinking the Argies are just playing keep ball deep in their midfield followed by the rapid shift through the gears, some ambitious passing and perfectly executed and timed skills resulting in the well taken opportunity.

Brilliant post, thank you for the video.

 

[Termite Man]

The reason the passing is so brilliant is because whenever the Argies were closed down the man in possession always had options thanks to the movement of his team-mates and the patience of their approach.

I didn't see much effort from the serbians to close the ball down in that link you gave

I think a lot of people are deluding themselves here. For the majority of the time the ball is being passed around in front of the Serbian attack and midfield.

True but then this isn't

Whenever the ball is passed into a dangerous position for the Serbs they quickly close the Argies down but they can't make any tackles because before they get remotely close the Argies have passed it to a teammate who has found a little bit of space.

 

[muser]

T&T and paraguay were competing for the ball , Serbia were not . That is the difference , why do people seem to be incapapble of seeing that !



No ! Serbia made themselves look bad , watch that video link . The defending and competition for the ball was terrible , they let the Argeninians play and made themselves look bad !

It's not rocket science !

Anything to disguise the fact that England are the worst of the big 10 sides. Argentina were masterful - live with it.

 

[Termite Man]

Anything to disguise the fact that England are the worst of the big 10 sides. Argentina were masterful - live with it.

did you miss this

although Argentina are better than England on current form so I doubt England could have done that against S&M !

and elsewhere on the football forum I have made no secret of how shit I think England are at the moment and who I'm blaming for it and what I consider would make the England team better . And I've never said the Argentina goal wasn't a good one I'm just not saying it was as good as everyone seems to think .

 

[muser]

SH quote: And I've never said the Argentina goal wasn't a good one I'm just not saying it was as good as everyone seems to think .

It is probably better than everyone thinks.

 

[Termite Man]

It is probably better than everyone thinks.

We're not going to agree on this , I just think the Serbians were very poor with their defending and didn't put enough pressure on the Argentinians thats why the goal looks so good . The final 2/3 passes were brilliant but a lot of players can do that . Whats making the goal "amazing" for a lot of people as far as I can work out is the fact there was a 24 pass build up to it , and IMO that was significantly aided by a weak Serbian defensive display .
Whats confusing me though is why people are unwilling to concede that point as if it someone devalues quality of the final 2/3 passes !

 

[Rollem]

The final 2/3 passes were brilliant but a lot of players can do that .

but not all do. thats the difference.

as for the oppostition being poor. think thats a bit of a cop out, s&m are not a mikey mouse team. any team stringing together 24 passes then socring is a great goal.

 

[Flashman]

Still prefer though.

 

[Termite Man]

but not all do. thats the difference.

as for the oppostition being poor. think thats a bit of a cop out, s&m are not a mikey mouse team. any team stringing together 24 passes then socring is a great goal.

But to pretend the opposition were actually playing well is also a cop out don't you think . I agree S&M are not a mickey mouse team but they were not challenging for the ball and Argentina were not put under much pressure which makes it a lot easier to string those 24 passes together . Yes it was a good goal and I'm probably being overly harsh but I just don't think it's good as some people are claiming !

 

[muser]

But to pretend the opposition were actually playing well is also a cop out don't you think . I agree S&M are not a mickey mouse team but they were not challenging for the ball and Argentina were not put under much pressure which makes it a lot easier to string those 24 passes together . Yes it was a good goal and I'm probably being overly harsh but I just don't think it's good as some people are claiming !

but then you are arguing that if S&M player commit themselves earlier then the build up wouldn't have happened. At the beginning of that movement one of their player was harrassing 2 or 3 argentinians for the ball. All good teams try to mark vulnerable area of the pitch knowing that attacking players have to come into that territory in order to score. If it was England who had done this we would not hear the end of it, it would rightly be a justification for us winning the world cup. But since it is Argentina, thoughts of Maradona and the hand of god and all that jazz makes it an average goal.

 

[Termite Man]

but then you are arguing that if S&M player commit themselves earlier then the build up wouldn't have happened. At the beginning of that movement one of their player was harrassing 2 or 3 argentinians for the ball. All good teams try to mark vulnerable area of the pitch knowing that attacking players have to come into that territory in order to score. If it was England who had done this we would not hear the end of it, it would rightly be a justification for us winning the world cup. But since it is Argentina, thoughts of Maradona and the hand of god and all that jazz makes it an average goal.

If England scored that goal I'd be fucking amazed because they aren't good enough ! And if you think it's because of Maradaonnas hand of god then your a fucking idiot . That really sounds like the argument of someone who cannot justify their opinion . As I've repeatedly said it was a very good goal I just don't think it was as good as everyone is making out because the S&M defence were not playing at a very high standard at the time and allowed Argentina to pass the ball virtually unchallanged .

And I've rewatched the goal several times ( at least 20 times now ) and I have seen nothing to change my opinion !

 

[muser]

If England scored that goal I'd be fucking amazed because they aren't good enough ! And if you think it's because of Maradaonnas hand of god then your a fucking idiot . That really sounds like the argument of someone who cannot justify their opinion . As I've repeatedly said it was a very good goal I just don't think it was as good as everyone is making out because the S&M defence were not playing at a very high standard at the time and allowed Argentina to pass the ball virtually unchallanged .

And I've rewatched the goal several times ( at least 20 times now ) and I have seen nothing to change my opinion !

Tell me why the majority think it is a wonder goal and you think it is a very good goal or that some people are making too much of it. No one has said that it is the best goal ever, so why do you think the goal is overrated?
Quickly can you recall a better 'team' goal.

 

[Termite Man]

No one has said that it is the best goal ever, so why do you think the goal is overrated?
Quickly can you recall a better 'team' goal.

Firstly it's being touted as "the best team goal ever" or thats what you seem to be suggesting which I think is overated because the Serbians didn't really challenge for the ball significantly so it was like a training exercise for Argentina . It's a very good goal but not worth the title of best team goal ever ( I think the Brazil goal that flashman posted up is better for a start )

 

[Bonfirelight]

the brazil 70 goal was better for sure. this might be 2nd though as far as team goals go.

as for the best goals ever, it'd make my top 10, but not too much higher.

 

[bertifrew]

And that is relevant why ? So serbia were defending like a bunch of amateurs but because they conceded 1 goal in qualifying then they automatically must be able to defend at the same standard every game . Idiot

no, but you must have a half decent defence if you are only going to concede one goal during all those games. do you always call people idiots during debates?

 

[jammer]

And that is relevant why ? So serbia were defending like a bunch of amateurs but because they conceded 1 goal in qualifying then they automatically must be able to defend at the same standard every game . Idiot

another hard man behind his computer.
its relevant because several posters reckoned that the defence was more to blame for THAT goal as opposed to the brilliance of the move..

typical engerlund supporters..only engerlund score great goals and there is an excuse for other teams scoring.
put down your sun and shut fuckin up.

 

[Harold Hill]

typical engerlund supporters..only engerlund score great goals and there is an excuse for other teams scoring.
put down your sun and shut fuckin up.

Don't be such a fucking baby.

 

[Harold Hill]

I reckon the finish took the shine off it. Bit clumsy, not particularly artistic.

 

[Termite Man]

no, but you must have a half decent defence if you are only going to concede one goal during all those games. do you always call people idiots during debates?

to be fair the idiot comment was just frustration , but just because a team plays well in qualifying doesn't mean they are good all the time . At the point in the game when that goal was scored the Serbian defense was almost non-existant , partly due to good argentinian play at the end of the move and partly due to a disinclination to pressure for the ball by the Serbians . How good the defence is at any other point in time is completly irrelevant !

 

[Termite Man]

another hard man behind his computer.
its relevant because several posters reckoned that the defence was more to blame for THAT goal as opposed to the brilliance of the move..
.

it seems you read the first senatance in that post and the last word , yet ignored the rest of the post ! As for your allegations of me being a typical engerland supporter you couldn't be further from the truth and if you bothered to read any of the posts I've made on this thread and in fact anywhere else on the football forum you'd know that .

and since you missed the point of my post I'll repeat it .

The Serbian defence was not playing well when the goal was scored how well they have played in the past or future is ireelevant because it has no bearing on the goal that is being discussed ! It may of been out of character but it was still poor defending !

 

[jonnyd1978]

The Serbian defence was not playing well when the goal was scored how well they have played in the past or future is ireelevant because it has no bearing on the goal that is being discussed ! It may of been out of character but it was still poor defending !

Fuck off!
I cannot believe you are still thinking this?! Do people accuse the Italy defence from 1970 of being shit? No! The passing and movement from Argentina was almost on a telepathic level especially the last few.
I suppose it's a game of opinion but yours is cleary wrong! It will rightly go down as one of the all time great world cup goals.

 

[Termite Man]

Fuck off!
I cannot believe you are still thinking this?! Do people accuse the Italy defence from 1970 of being shit? No! The passing and movement from Argentina was almost on a telepathic level especially the last few.
I suppose it's a game of opinion but yours is cleary wrong! It will rightly go down as one of the all time great world cup goals.

The italian defence were challenging for the ball and closing down players a lot more than the serbians were . What I'm arguing is that it was still a good goal but not as great as everyone is making out because the opposition were not playing well . That is all . I have never said it was a bad goal or that it was unimpressive , in fact I have said several times on this thread I thought it was a good goal .
I've identified the last few passes as a very good section of play but the time on the ball in the build up gave the Argentinians time to pick their passes .

Do you not agree that the serbian defence could have made things harder for the Argentinians in the build up to the goal ?

 

[jonnyd1978]

Do you not agree that the serbian defence could have made things harder for the Argentinians in the build up to the goal ?

No I don't agree. They could have tried a foul I suppose, but that's not the way thesedays as yellow cards are so easily obtained. It was a special goal. Each player had at least 1 option to pass too and usually 2 or 3 before a Serb could actually get near enough to tackle him. How do you tackle a player that has touched the ball only 3 times before moving it on? You can't because you can't get there in time. Chasing shadows.And the last few passes could have split any defence. Instinctive stuff.