The Anti-Democratic Nature of Liberalism

Discussion in 'theory, philosophy & history' started by redsquirrel, Oct 31, 2016.

  1. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    So I’ve been meaning to do a thread on this for a while. It’s no great insight that liberalism is anti-democratic, but it with the recent rash of liberal anti-democracy comments that recent events have provoked I think it’s worth starting a thread looking both at the background of liberalism opposition to democracy and what forms it will take in the future.

    From it’s initial restriction of the franchise to the right type of people
    to it's more recent tactic of the imposition of forms of technocracy, such as the creation of central banks.

    The recent wailings of liberals about the masses in the light of the referendum and other recent political events are nothing new as such but I think the degree of such views around at present is worth thinking about.

    One example is this piece, where the author uses the old liberal argument that democracy is nothing so crude as people actually having control but rather
    Now this piece is terrible, but it is interesting (to me anyway) that this type of crap seems to be increasingly common. Also interesting that Plato and Aristotle, rather than say Hobbes, are quoted in attacking democracy. Not only did both support authoritarian political systems but they start from a undemocratic ethic, that some people are greater than others. Also interesting is this crap
    in light of a great piece butchers posted on another thread
    So reading recommendations on this, other recent examples of liberalism attacks of democracy have people seen, how people think this opposition will play out in the near future?

    ETA: Good example of the above in this piece by the progressive pet economist Blanchflower
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
  2. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist specter haunting

    can't link to them as I cannot remember which fine journals published the phrase but we have had the (meant negativly) 'rule by plebscite' line trotted out at least twice.
     
  3. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    Which will be reduced to rule by plebs
     
  4. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    Incidentally, just re-reading the Technocracy thread from 2011 and came across this post of Random's
    Bang on the money.
     
  5. hipipol

    hipipol Peckham Wry

    "liberalism opposition to democracy"
    Interesting use of language innit?
     
  6. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    Good if brief piece on this by Kenan Malik in the Observer
     
    purves grundy likes this.
  7. gorski

    gorski customised free radical

    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  8. gorski

    gorski customised free radical

    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  9. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    It's most def not an exhaustive list. It appears to be one book from 35 years ago that describes a lost world.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  10. gorski

    gorski customised free radical

    Yeah, principles of Fascism/Nazism are no more, sure...

    Go drive a truck or summat...
     
  11. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    This is not an exhaustive (don't) pipe of course. But i did smoke it 35 years ago. So you are all scum and that.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  12. gorski

    gorski customised free radical

    Yeah, anyone who isn't you - or isn't "adoring every path you have ever taken" - is a scum in your "prism", sure - that much I believe you...

    EDIT: for anyone who doesn't know you - this is why you have earned my nickname for your nickname, Bitch! All you ever do is bitch!

    Show us a single similar contribution of yours!!!:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  13. campanula

    campanula plant a seed

    mmm, the meaning of 'projection' has become clear to me, reading these witless spoutings of venom. I admire the patience of those who continue to engage with Gorski's interminable drivel. More interesting things to do - seeds to sow, garden rubbish to clear.
     
  14. gorski

    gorski customised free radical

    Boy, people like you have lots of fun in a shit world...
     
  15. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    Oh no, not delegates!

    I also like the argument how having another referendum on the same issue 45 years after first is somehow illegitimate
     
  16. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Warning: posts may cause vasovagal presyncope

    John, to be fair to him, is not necessarily coming over all Edmund Burke himself, but repeating the general view amongst MPs.
     
  17. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    I have read some of Domenico Losurdo "War and Revolution: rethinking the 20th Century."

    He's also done a book on Liberalism. Which I haven't read but seems relevant to this thread
    VersoBooks.com
     
  18. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    Cheers Gramsci I'll check it out.
     
    Pickman's model and Gramsci like this.
  19. seventh bullet

    seventh bullet red mullet

    Got a pdf. Post it later.
     
  20. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist specter haunting

    what was voted in for in '75 was not what was voted out of in 2016 was it? I've seen variations on that crap everywhere
     
    pengaleng likes this.
  21. seventh bullet

    seventh bullet red mullet

  22. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    Cheers SB
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  23. CNT36

    CNT36 Not carbon nano tubes

    Is he a bit of a Stalin apologist?
     
  24. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    Considering the source I hesitant to link to it, but Spiked/the RCP had a recent issue on this topic.

    The Mike Hume piece, the only one I've read at the moment, is actually a reasonable, if light, summary.
     
    Gramsci likes this.
  25. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Haven't read enough of him to say.

    He was a member of the Italian Communist Party.

    Criticised not taking critical enough line with USSR etc in reviews whilst been highly critical of liberalism.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  26. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    You could say that. And a whole lot of other nasty things as well.

     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  27. CNT36

    CNT36 Not carbon nano tubes

    Great another Assad lover.
     
  28. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Warning: posts may cause vasovagal presyncope

    "Brexit is a stark reminder; it only takes a small percentage of the population to be politically uneducated to sway a huge national decision".

    "Petition - Make it a requirement for people to pass a politics test before they can vote"

    Petition: Make it a requirement for people to pass a politics test before they can vote

    Brexit has been a stark reminder; it only takes one result that liberals don't like for them to decide that voting the "wrong" way = a lack of competence to vote.
     
    mojo pixy and Pickman's model like this.
  29. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    If you think that people are making uneducated votes, the solution is education, not a restriction on voting.

    EDIT: And a more equal distribution of wealth and working hours so that everyone can have the same access to education
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
    S☼I, mojo pixy, Mordi and 4 others like this.
  30. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist specter haunting

    if you ask these people who gets to define these things they look at you like you are mad. They hadn't even considered that it cannot be themselves
     
    S☼I, Fez909, mojo pixy and 4 others like this.

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