The Alt-Right

Discussion in 'world politics, current affairs and news' started by Jeff Robinson, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. Jeff Robinson

    Jeff Robinson Well-Known Member

    I've been ignoring these vermin for a while because I thought they were just irrelevant pieces of shit desperately trolling for attention. However, in light of the fact that they are about to take over the White House, I thought it might be worth dedicating a thread to them, so that people can share stories, articles, analysis, discussion etc.

    From my incredibly limited knowledge about these cunts, it seems as if there are at least two distinct factions: the Steve Bannon wing - organised around Breitbart - who are basically far right trolls, and the Richard Spencer wing - outright neo-nazis. Would be interesting to know more about their origins, their connections, supporters and the relationship between the different factions etc.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
  2. marty21

    marty21 One on one? You're crazy.

    Came across some group calling themselves Knights Templar, which , going by what they post on line- are basically Nazis but claim they are the new Knights Templars and want a new crusade and that. There may be more than one of these Templar groups.
    dylanredefined likes this.
  3. Idris2002

    Idris2002 Well, there goes the frying pan theory.

    Breivik claimed to be a Knights Templar, IIRC.
  4. Dogsauce

    Dogsauce Lord of the Dance Settee

    butchersapron posted a good article about Breitb*rt in one of the other threads, which included details on Bannon's background & wealth/connections.

    More generally, I think it has grown larger because of the resentment stirred up by the Tea Party lot, that may have been a gateway for some of the followers - although the American far right has always been there, politics has moved so much in their direction that it's only a short jump off from mainstream white victimhood into what was was considered fringe fruitloopery a decade or so ago.
    camouflage and Jeff Robinson like this.
  5. BigTom

    BigTom Well-Known Member

    Not sure what the right term is exactly but masculinism (for want of a better word, I'm sure there is one) is as big a part of this as racism/nationalism. The alt-right is connected with the pick-up artist scene, the whole 4chan alpha/beta/cuck sjw nonsense and MRA crap. I don't really know if that fits into the Breitbart wing as although reactionary is not (necessarily) racist (though of course plenty of racism there if you want to look, which you don't).
    I've tended to associate the alt-right with libertarianist economics as well, which doesn't really fit with neo-nazi fascism.
  6. binka

    binka !!!!!!!!!

    Yes same here. Someone I know on facebook is in a relationship with one of these fuckwits - all he ever posts about is communists, muslims, Liberland, bitcoin and gun rights.

    He's from the EU and Im not sure if there's a difference between US and European Alt-right - the fact the European ones all seem to be gun nuts suggests probably not.
    BigTom likes this.
  7. Jeff Robinson

    Jeff Robinson Well-Known Member

    True Tom, but what of Richard Spencer - who identifies as 'alt-right' and who Bannon himself has described as an 'intellectual' of the movement? He is certainly a neo-Nazi. This leads me to think that there is a faction that identify as alt-right that are fascist.
    muscovyduck and krtek a houby like this.
  8. BigTom

    BigTom Well-Known Member

    yeah, I really don't know. It's not something I've followed closely, especially in the last 2-3 years, but I think it could be a case of the far-right latching on to the MRAs through a masculinist/conservative/reactionary shared viewpoint wrt feminism and socialism. 4chan is possibly key to the two things getting linked up, certainly this was the developing cesspit in which PUAs, right wing trolls, racists and a variety of libertarian/computer sciencey types would hang around. Many of the libertarians being not far off the bedroom computer geek stereotype getting caught up in the PUA scene which developed into the MRA stuff around now (PUA still be part of that but that's about picking up women, whilst MRA is political). This brings out the alpha/beta/cuck stuff which really lends itself to fascist thinking but libertarianism is huge amongst computer science types (whether MRA/alt-right arseholes or not) and part of the alt-right is the technological / internet / social media/forums aspect of the whole scene.
    Jeff Robinson likes this.
  9. camouflage

    camouflage the usual rigmarole.

    Also Gamergate.

    ETA: I do reckon (as I was getting at in another thread yesterday) that part of it is added to by the Project Fear of the Clinton Campaign and the anti-Brexiter campaign, where the "Literally-Hitler!!!! type alarmism for anyone critical of particular neoliberal preferences has dangerous side-effects. Brexit happens anyway and the New European Right think it's a win for them, Trump gets elected and the Alt Right are even more emboldened, and the general lumping-in of normal peoples concerns with the Far Right that merely swells the ranks of the actual Far Right, and undermines the credibility of mainstream analysis.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
    muscovyduck, Tom A and BigTom like this.
  10. Jeff Robinson

    Jeff Robinson Well-Known Member

    I'm interested where 'anonymous' fit in to all of this too. They are not alt-right, but they emerged from the same swamp and they've been pushing lots of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and Russian State propaganda of late.
    muscovyduck and Tom A like this.
  11. Ranbay

    Ranbay The same rules apply

    These people are mostly about selling hoodies and badges and shit T-shirts etc.

    Cunts but they seem to more about marketing and sales than any action.
    marty21 likes this.
  12. Miss Caphat

    Miss Caphat I want it that way

    sometimes I hate the internet :(

    (sorry for the lack of in-depth analysis beyond that)
  13. BigTom

    BigTom Well-Known Member

    Always difficult to consider because anonymous is so amorphous, ultimate autonomist organising, I would be surprised to find that there were lots of competing anonyops around the us election and alt-right issues. But yes came out of 4chan and connected with wikileaks/assange which is also in this because of the assange rape accusations I think as much as anything else - wikileaks may be a case of post rape allegations the only people who were left were the MRAs?
    Tom A likes this.
  14. camouflage

    camouflage the usual rigmarole.

    You might be interested to read this article on "Fake News", certainly related to the likes of Breitbart and certainly related to the walled-garden of Western foreign-policy thinking: WPost Won’t Retract McCarthyistic Smear – Consortiumnews

    eta: meant this link but both are related and worth the read so will leave the other in place:
    The Orwellian War on Skepticism – Consortiumnews
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
  15. two sheds

    two sheds Least noticed poster 2007

  16. camouflage

    camouflage the usual rigmarole.

    All sorts are on the list. Strangely, CNN, the BBC, Reuters and a number of other purveyors of Fake News are not. Post Truth or something.
    two sheds likes this.
  17. marty21

    marty21 One on one? You're crazy.

    One idiot has started a group (on google+) and called it The 300, and they post memes of with knights, flags, and lions, they like lions (it had 26 members last time I looked)

    Oh and they are ready to rise up (all 26 of them) if they don't get the brexit they want .
  18. Combustible

    Combustible Well-Known Member

    I wonder how much of it also goes back to Ron Paul's 2008 primary run, which managed to get a lot of fanatical online support. Ron Paul and other libertarians like Lew Rockwell have a long history of links with white supremacists/neo-nazis.
  19. cantsin

    cantsin Well-Known Member

    the 4Chan / Gamergate / meme-freak lot, who overlap with the PUA / MRA camps + the 'Red Pill' brigade etc, deffo seem an important part of all this, and lend the whole thing an edgy, nihilistic/ lulztastic virality...the rise of Trump ( who RT': d a Pepe / MAGA meme back in the summer ) helped them all converge ( online ) with the Breitbart / Milo lot, and the actual full on quasi fash / Richard Spence wing, in an ugly, imperfect storm.

    There's no doubt that a lot of that 4Chan brigade feel left out / left behind,( by mainstream culture, womankind, friends IRL etc ) , but I can't see them as long term players in the alt right thing , even if it has any legs - they don't have any real investment in the poltics, no physical links ( purely online) , their socio economic status is fluid / non defined, and as their lives inevitably move on (even the grimmest IT backwaters are a long , long way from the rustbelt economically speaking) a lot of them will leave it all well behind, wherever the good ship Trump eventually washes ashore, and whatever state it / the US is in at that stage.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
    likesfish, Miss Caphat and BigTom like this.
  20. Bernie Gunther

    Bernie Gunther Fundamentalist Druid

    I'd see it as somewhat related to the rise of what you might call 'conspiratorial entrepreneurs' and the way in which conspiratorial thinking (closed epistemologies that are highly resistant to logic and fact, combined with an intense mistrust of mainstream cultural authority / scientific orthodoxy) has migrated from fringe milieus to become mainstream.

    Many of the characteristics of the conspiracy loon are vividly present in the way they argue and reason and many of the memes being pushed by the major idea factories of the alt-right are heavily laden with concepts and images that originate in milita nut / jeezoid / neo-nazi / alien autopsy circles.

    I also suspect that the MRA stuff, which is a kind of conspiracy theory itself, gets layered in via similar mechanisms. What I'm describing (after Barkun) as 'conspiratorial entrepreneurs' doing a sort of bricolage with various kinds of alienated gibberish.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
  21. Bernie Gunther

    Bernie Gunther Fundamentalist Druid

    Yeah that's exactly the sort of stuff I'm on about in my previous post.
  22. Vintage Paw

    Vintage Paw dead stare and computer glare

    Re: gamergate link, a games journalist wrote this a few days ago, which gives one look at how they are linked (obviously not as in-depth a discussion as is needed, but provides a little background on some of the links for those perhaps not aware of the gamergate stuff).

    A quote:

    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
  23. BigTom

    BigTom Well-Known Member

    Definitely get a lot of crossover in the way MRAs and conspiraloons argue and also I remember at occupy Birmingham there was a section of conspiraloon libertarians (what we've got is corporatism not capitalism types). Conspiracy theories have always been part of/in with the far right scene so there's a crossover there and perhaps ripples from 9/11 conspiracy theories?
    muscovyduck and Bernie Gunther like this.
  24. Bernie Gunther

    Bernie Gunther Fundamentalist Druid

    I think what you get is a recombinant synthesis of any and all stigmatized knowledge. If official culture rejects it, it potentially becomes grist for the conspiratorial entrepreneur's mill. So you get new age stuff merging with neo-nazi stuff and alien lizard stuff like with Icke's crowd.

    That Barkun book I referenced above traces the way far-right and jeezoid millenarian conspiracies collided with ufo-cult stuff in the early 90s to produce the NWO superconspiracy that's now common currency among the majority of these movements.

    This has been brewing a while, but now it's big business. If it can potentially get a bunch of obvious crooks and crazies into the White House it's surely worth investing in.
  25. Miss Caphat

    Miss Caphat I want it that way

    I think that any time young people (maybe especially young men) get political, there can be a desire to latch onto something that is "secret knowledge," especially if it's in opposition to the knowledge/basic beliefs of the people around you who you feel are stifling you.

    Whether that "secret knowledge" has any basis in fact is beside the point
    muscovyduck and likesfish like this.
  26. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    He really needs to do a big update to that book - or a new one - even the updated version stops well before the internet/911 take off. But then again, maybe not, as i don't think he demonstrated in the update chapters that he was getting to grips with it. I think the interpretative framework he established could easily be part of the job though. Improvisational post-millenialism + massively increased speed of circulation (and by crude marxian analogy we may even be reaching the point of fictitious conspiracy theory or debt or some other economy of conspiracy) of stigmatized knowledge producing combined stigmatizations.

    edit: just checked his age, prob not going to happen.
    gawkrodger likes this.
  27. Bernie Gunther

    Bernie Gunther Fundamentalist Druid

    Yeah, 'economy of conspiracy' is a good way to put it.
    J Ed likes this.
  28. Ranbay

    Ranbay The same rules apply

    The facebook page for Templar Knights is funny as fuck, it's full of people saying, you don't talk about it and it's not real as the real ones wouldnt use facebook, then other people going yeah i want a hoody for £34:99 please.
  29. Ranbay

    Ranbay The same rules apply

  30. teqniq

    teqniq DisMembered

    Sounds a bit like Fight Club with a business model

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice