The all-new, shiny '08/09 rugby thread

[Red Faction]

It does rather beg the question, doesn't it? Would you exchange any of Munster's HCs for an Irish grand slam, I wonder?

Not that ours are available for swapsies with any old riff raff, you understand

they're not his to exchange!

 

[bendeus]

Wales has one good club (Regional) side, one adequate one, two poor ones and a scattering of pros in other leagues. That doesn't provide much of a player base, particularly when some of the key players on the two good sides aren't Welsh.

Wales currently has roughly enough top quality players to make a single very good side, if nobody is injured, and even then with a dodgy position or two. Once any of the first choice players get injured (and people always get injured) there is no strength in depth at all.

Fixed it for you. We seem to have done alright over the last few seasons internationally with a setup no worse than your own. Still doesn't explain why you haven't won a grand slam with your golden generation.







Oh, hang on...............

 

[Red Faction]

Wales has one good club (Regional) side, one adequate one, two poor ones and a scattering of pros in other leagues. That doesn't provide much of a player base, particularly when some of the key players on the two good sides aren't Welsh.

Wales currently has roughly enough top quality players to make a single very good side, if nobody is injured, and even then with a dodgy position or two. Once any of the first choice players get injured (and people always get injured) there is no strength in depth at all.

i dont think thats fair.
you have one currently exceptional team- the os
one traditionally very strong team, that finished above the Os in the ML last season
and one team that has money poured into it and is finally getting results, the only welsh team with 2 wins from 2 in the HK this season...
the less said about the dragons the better perhaps

Fixed it for you. We seem to have done alright over the last few seasons internationally with a setup no worse than your own. Still doesn't explain why you haven't won a grand slam with your golden generation.







Oh, hang on...............

im watching you bendy... be afraid

 

[Mr Retro]

It does rather beg the question, doesn't it? Would you exchange any of Munster's HCs for an Irish grand slam, I wonder?

I wouldn't. Genuinely.

I wonder would any of the Muster players. Deep down like.

 

[Red Faction]

no way!
they worked too hard for them to trade them away so easily

we never won the slam cos we kept getting beaten by a better team- france
we won the HC because the defeats hurt so much more, northampton '00, leicester '02, the miracle match of '03, getting to spank leicester in revenge- only to follow it up by defeat to toulouse, being robbed in '04 by wasps- they set out to injure ROG and despite the penalty count of 40-10 or something similar, we spent the second half with 13 men on the pitch for 'repeat offending' (oh the irony!!)

too much hurt went into winning the HC to give it away

i never felt the same way about ireland- sure it was nice when we were winning
but when we lost- we just shrugged our shoulders and didnt take the bitterness on board for the next year we just started afresh

 

[bendeus]

i dont think thats fair.
you have one currently exceptional team- the os
one traditionally very strong team, that finished above the Os in the ML last season
and one team that has money poured into it and is finally getting results, the only welsh team with 2 wins from 2 in the HK this season...
the less said about the dragons the better perhaps

I've got a lot of respect for your rugby nouse, RF, but I'm not sure about this. Post regionalisation (and indeed in the seasons leading up to it), Welsh club rugby has been nothing short of shithouse. Taking the Os, for example, there's no doubt that they're stuffed full of so-called 'galacticos', and on paper possibly look a better side than Munster and Leinster, but in reality you're looking at a team that has only once reached the knockout stages in Europe, where they capitulated embarrassingly against the fucking Fez heads when a clear road to a home s/f and final were beckoning. This sums them up, they have the individual talent but are let down by weak, tactially inept coaching and the assumption that they just have to turn up to win. No greater contrast could there be than to the all-conquering Munster (who, if truth be told, I only hate because they're so fucking good). The Os are in no way exceptional, and this will once again be proven as they fail to get out of their HC group. Worth remembering that, Welsh players aside, they rely heavily on foreign imports such as Holah and Tiatia and until recently Marshall, who all kept out promising Welsh players.

Moving on to the Blues; well, the best that can be said of them is that they're not as shit as they used to be, and indeed may even qualify for the knockout stages of the HC, but that's all they'll do. Years of disinvestment by Peter Thomas means that instead of signing the likes of Howlett they're signing the likes of Ceri Sweeney. They have had glaring deficiencies at half back for a number of seasons, but this has never been addressed. Why, because the benefactor has short arms and long pockets. They're a decent side, but that's all they are. Same deal here in terms of NWQ: Blair, Tito, Molitika, Filise, etc.

The Scarlets are a busted flush. Atavistic, backward and parochial. Feeding on the scraps of past glories. With Nigel Davies at the helm they will continue to slide into mediocrity, a real shadow of the glory side in their pomp. Not sure if there's the money to turn them around. Also worth remembering that they had to change the non Welsh Qualified 'gentlemen's agreement' tariff this close season to account for the seven or eight foreign players now in the Scarlets' first team squad. Stephen Jones is really the only international class Welsh player they currently have on their books, and I can see him fucking off if they're not careful.

Finally, the Dragons - the hufflepuff of Welsh rugby. Nuff said.

So, to compare

Os Vs. Munster = Munster every time. The undisputed kings of Europe vs a bunch of primping, preening, tactically naive primadonnas.

Leinster vs. Blues = Closer, but Ladyboys nick it with their newly reinforced pack

Scarlets vs. Ulster = Scarlets. Ulster are shit and coached by Matt Williams, but once-proud Scarlets are almost as shit.

Dragons vs. Connacht = Draw. Neither exactly contribute shitloads of players to the national setup anyway.

Ireland win 2 - 1

 

[bendeus]

im watching you bendy... be afraid

And I'm watching you back; darkly and with menassiz!

 

[Red Faction]

just realised we havent had any predictions yet.
for the HC- i know 2 games have already been played, hope that doesnt devalue our predictions...

Team P W D L F A BP PTS
1 Munster 2 2 0 0 43 33 0 8
2 Sale 2 1 0 1 48 39 1 5
3 Clermont Auvergne 2 1 0 1 39 51 0 4
4 Montauban 2 0 0 2 36 43 2 2

P2 Table
Team P W D L F A BP PTS
1 Leinster 2 2 0 0 68 27 2 10
2 Wasps 2 1 0 1 36 52 0 4
3 Edinburgh 2 1 0 1 29 33 0 4
4 Castres 2 0 0 2 17 38 1 1

P3 Table
Team P W D L F A BP PTS
1 Leicester 2 2 0 0 72 22 1 9
2 Ospreys 2 1 0 1 21 21 1 5
3 Perpignan 2 1 0 1 36 31 1 5
4 Treviso 2 0 0 2 32 87 0 0

P4 Table
Team P W D L F A BP PTS
1 Harlequins 2 2 0 0 71 43 1 9
2 Stade Francais 2 2 0 0 63 25 1 9
3 Scarlets 2 0 0 2 37 66 1 1
4 Ulster 2 0 0 2 31 68 0 0

P5 Table
Team P W D L F A BP PTS
1 Toulouse 2 2 0 0 40 32 0 8
2 Bath 2 1 0 1 29 27 1 5
3 Newport-Gwent D'gons 2 1 0 1 41 35 1 5
4 Glasgow 2 0 0 2 38 54 1 1

P6 Table
Team P W D L F A BP PTS
1 Cardiff Blues 2 2 0 0 93 44 2 10
2 Biarritz 2 1 0 1 51 32 1 5
3 Gloucester 2 1 0 1 46 47 0 4
4 Calvisano 2 0 0 2 30 97 0 0




group 1, I initially tipped ASM, assuming they would want to avenge the injustice they brought upon themselves last year
however seeing them capitulate at home to sale by 4 tries, a team we spanked away from home too- have to tip MUNSTER for this group

group 2- on paper, WASPS look favourite to win the group, but I would LOVE it if the LADYBOYS got there before them

group 3- easy to see it would be a 50:50 between TIGERS and the OSPREYS, im keeping my faith in the Os to want to avenge last year’s disappointment and to carry on with their slam winning style

Group 4 is an interesting one. This will test your prediction bendy on whether ulster are worse than the scarlets (I agree with you btw). I would like STADE to beat QUINS. QUINS are a nice side with a fancy backline, but once you get past ‘I flatter to deceive’ care and ‘made of glass’ strettle- they do look a weaker team HOWEVER, they humiliated Llanelli and Ulster in must more impressive style than STADE managed… im still tipping STADE to win, maybe QUINS for best 2nd placed team

Group 5- TOULOUSE, no brainer. If BATH can spank the two minnows, then they should be looking for the best 2nd spot as well.

Group 6- On paper is a tough group, English bridesmaids Gloucester, French also-rans Biarritz, and Cardiff ‘that other vaguely decent’ welsh region
beforehand I’d have tipped GLOUCESTER, but with 2/2 wins under their belt CARDIFF are arguably in a better position, even if they did ship in 20 points against calvisano

 

[bendeus]

Group 1: Munster (yawwwnnn). Can't see Sale bouncing back from *that* defeat. Can't see CA catching up, neither. Their defeat against Sale at home will be the difference.
Group 2: Leinster - from pre-tournament also rans to the big boys of the group as a result of Wasps spectacular demise. Just hope Edwards and Edwards/Geech don't carry through this shite coaching to Wales and the Lions respectively.
Group 3: Fucking cheating bastard Tiggers. It always is. Dan Carter or no Dan Carter, Perp are shit on the road, and the Os are just shit.
Group 4: Stade. Please! I fucking hate the Quims, though agree that they could take this group. How can a team so signally gash last season look so decent this one. Take note, Welsh regions!
Group 5: Bath fucked up royally by failing to get a BP win at home against the Drags. I fancy NGD to continue to give them problems back in Newport as well. A couple of dropped points could see them fail to progress. As RF says, Toulouse it is from this lot.
Group 6: Really close, this one. Good start by the Blues could all be ruined by a trademark implosion. That being said, Glaws didn't look great shakes and a lot will depend on what random shapes Biarritz decide to throw. I'm going to go with the heart and say the Blues on this one, though.

Runners up: Quins and Gloucester

 

[Red Faction]

http://www.justin.tv/sm3ggy1

free coverage of the matches on set an ta

 

[bendeus]

Ulcer beating the sons of Satan

Fuck me! Hold out, red hand gang

Just back from seeing the Blues beat Leicester in the EDF. A few observations:

Jamie Roberts can do a job at 12, and he's fucking huge.
Andy Powell is playing very, very well at 8, and could do a job in the national setup if he retains this form
Nicky Robinson is a fine 10, and could even force his way back into the Wales reckoning.
Leigh Halfpenny is very much a name to watch for the future, and along with Tom James represents a long-awaited flush of wing talent finally knocking on the door of the national setup. 'Bout time too!

E2A: The shittest team in the Magners' League is now beating the overlords of Ewrop 20-6.

Lol! Suck it up, RF

 

[bendeus]

Lulz

 

[Red Faction]

still two more heineken cups than you bendy!!

do these words sound familiar?

Moving on to the Blues; well, the best that can be said of them is that they're not as shit as they used to be, and indeed may even qualify for the knockout stages of the HC, but that's all they'll do. Years of disinvestment by Peter Thomas means that instead of signing the likes of Howlett they're signing the likes of Ceri Sweeney. They have had glaring deficiencies at half back for a number of seasons, but this has never been addressed. Why, because the benefactor has short arms and long pockets. They're a decent side, but that's all they are. Same deal here in terms of NWQ: Blair, Tito, Molitika, Filise, etc.

the question i believe you're asking bendy is 'how long before filise qualifies for welsh citizenship'

credit to cardiff - what a match!!!
didnt concede a single try- and were robbed of another two potential tries due to dubious forward pass calls from the ref...

but i have one more question bendy...

The Scarlets are a busted flush.

27- 0, btw

Atavistic, backward and parochial.

that was the score in their game, 27-0

Feeding on the scraps of past glories.

not a single point conceded

With Nigel Davies at the helm they will continue to slide into mediocrity, a real shadow of the glory side in their pomp.

remind me of the score again please bendy?


Awesome weekend of EDF games, less than awesome weekend of ML games

im sure all the munster boards are saying 'we'll good on ulster, couldnt even beat our 3rd XV' and probably laying a whole load of shit into peter stringer as well

a good servant of the club who is struggling to regain the form of former glories

more importantly- it shows both the caliber of the leage and the self inflated ego of my own dear team that we thought we could take the kids to ravenhill and walk away with the spoils

credit to ulster, we were never in the match
i wish we'd either take this league seriously or not bother at all
but to set out to win it, and insult our opposition by playing such a weak team, we deserved to get spanked

good quality players in the ulster set up mind, looks promising in the future for ireland

 

[bendeus]

do these words sound familiar?

Which twat wrote those? I can't believe anybody could be so myopic

In fairness, I'll stick to my guns in terms of Europe. The Blues will get no further than the QFs.

the question i believe you're asking bendy is 'how long before filise qualifies for welsh citizenship'

Well spotted, RF. Filise is getting better and better. Sadly, having played for Tonga he won't be pulling on a Welsh shirt anytime soon

credit to cardiff - what a match!!!

Fucking right. My first visit to the Cardiff Arms Park for many a moon. Awesome game of rugby. Tiggers were well up for this game, and fielded a strong side. They brought their usual blend of physicality, aggression and cynical cheating, in which they were ably supported by that chimp fellating Saes cock, Pearson. He should never be allowed to ref a match involving a Welsh team again - shocking! They were beaten by solid defence and enormous guile and pace behind the ball. This was vintage Blues, a performance of a magnitude that their illustrious ancestors would have been proud, and they blew those cheating scumsuckers away.

I have to concede this. They looked very, very tidy today. Since doing away with their experiment with a flat back line, playing with depth and hitting the ball with pace, they have looked bloody good. I respectfully concede the point.

but i have one more question bendy...


27- 0, btw


that was the score in their game, 27-0

not a single point conceded


remind me of the score again please bendy?

Against Bristol (who are shite) thirds, at Stradey, on the most emooorshunal night in Scarlet history. They'd better have scored that many, and they should have scored a lot, lot more. Scarlets are still shite, I'm sorry, and they'll get found out by decent teams time and time again. Brizzle are not decent, not by any measure.

I'd say the more impressive performance was the NGDs once more getting a (losing) bonus point, away, against the cream of the GP - 25-20 against Glaws is a fucking impressive result, and if Blues can come away with a scoreline like that in the HEC will almost ensure their progression.

a good servant of the club who is struggling to regain the form of former glories

While understanding your point, I can't bring myself to feel any compassion for Gollum. Not any.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

kick and clap.

well done. very well done old bean.

bored? you will be.......

 

[bendeus]

kick and clap.

well done. very well done old bean.

bored? you will be.......

That'd be an illustrious club side from Wales going head to head with an illustrious club side from the Midlands in a widely-watched, cross-border cup competition that reflects the diversity and ebullience of the code.

Obviously doesn't have the geographical spread or sheer glamour of, ooh, Castleford versus Wigan. That I concede.

Noticed that the fronts of the players' shorts remained fairly grass stain free as well. Obviously I was hoping for greater levels of turf humping, but it never materialised.

In other news, Leslie Pepsicola actually managed to flop over the line for a try today. Even that talentless lummox couldn't fuck up a open scoring opportunity when the ball was accurately passed into his bread basket, but algae was seen to grow on him as he laboriously trundled the two and a half yards to glory.

 

[1927]

Just watching the Os v Worcs and this ref is abysmal. The standard of refereeing is generally crap these days but this guy is in another league of mediocrity!

 

[bendeus]

The shit refereeing today was only outdone by the shit refereeing for the Blues - Tigers.

On another note, how fucking good is Tommy Bowe? He was one of the few rays of light for the Os today, and his angles of running, particularly for the try, were superb.

What will probably disappoint RF and Sleater is that the Os most definitely view him as a 13, and will be playing him there as a regular first choice starter (instead of the dreadful Sonny Parker). Obviously better if used as a wing from team Ireland's perspective, but hey! We don't have to think about team Ireland .

 

[sleaterkinney]

We have Kearney and Fitzgerald, even someone like Johne Murphy who could do a job there. D'Arcy is out for a bit so we could do with some backup in the centre.

 

[The Boy]

France have announced their squad for the game against the Pumas next week.


NO major surprises, although I hope Medard gets a run out - he looked good in last season's Top14 and was the top French try scorer in the championship. Can play at FB or on the wing.

Chabal is recalled, which should be good provided they don't play him out of position a la Laporte. Although with Hairydonkey and Picamoles i reckon they just might. Picamoles is highly rated by the national set-up and plays well in the league, but his performances so far for les bleus haven't been great. It'll be good to see Baby in a blue top again - hopefully he'll stay injury free.

No Michalak, as he's been given time to 'settle into his club structure'. Apparently if he does get recalled he will be more likely to play at 9 rather than 10 which I guess makes Trinh-Duc first choice fly-half - and Lievremont a fool of the calibre of Laporte. If he doesn't play ten (which he shouldn't) then he goes in the centre, simple as that.

My team from that lot would have to be something along the lines of:-


!) Faure
2)Kayser
3)Lecouls
4)Nallet
5)Millo-Chlusky
6)Ouedraogo
7)Dussautoir
8)Chabal
9)Parra
10)Trinh-Duc
11)Heymans
12)Jazion
13)Baby
14)Malzieu
15)Medard

France squad:

Backs: Cédric Heymans, Maxime Médard, Alexis Palisson, Julien Malzieu, Yannick Jauzion, Benoit Baby, Lionel Beauxis, François Trinh-Duc, Jean-Baptiste Elissalde, Morgan Parra.

Forwards: Fulgence Ouedraogo, Thierry Dusautoir, Imanol Harinordoquy, Louis Picamoles, Lionel Nallet (c), Romain Millo-Chluski, Sebastien Chabal, Benoit Lecouls, Nicolas Mas, Lionel Faure, Fabien Barcella, Dimitri Szarzewski, Benjamin Kayser.

 

[bendeus]

Bath

Mattie: Watched the Blues vs. Bath last night. What a fine side Bath look - their back play, including offloads, angles of running and passing into space was sublime at times. Was particularly impressed by your 12 (Hape) and 11 (Higgins??). Hape particularly looks the real deal - strong, fast and clever, a perfect 12.

Cardiff lucky to win that one, TBH. 13-3 up at half time despite only having 21% territory and 32% possession. Bath let themselves down in the final quarter (eighth) of the pitch, with the final pass often being fumbled or the final ruck leading to turnover ball.

Anyway, just wanted to say that I've rarely seen such an adventurous GP side behind the scrum, and that your boys did themselves proud last night. An excellent team!

 

[bendeus]

No Michalak, as he's been given time to 'settle into his club structure'. Apparently if he does get recalled he will be more likely to play at 9 rather than 10 which I guess makes Trinh-Duc first choice fly-half - and Lievremont a fool of the calibre of Laporte. If he doesn't play ten (which he shouldn't) then he goes in the centre, simple as that.

Fuck me! Michelak at 9?? Is there a precedent?

And what about everyones' favourite, chippy Welsh underestimator Ellisalde - is Kelleher keeping him out of the 9 jersey at Toulouse or something? And what of Yachvili also?

Confused

Still, reinforces my suspicions that Livremont is a few bangers short of a barby, like

 

[bendeus]

Oop! Just noticed that Ellisalde is benched. What's his form like this season then, TheBoy?

 

[The Boy]

Fuck me! Michelak at 9?? Is there a precedent?

See, I can't actually remember when or against whom, but I have a very definite memory of Michalak playing 9 fo France and doing very, very badly.

Oop! Just noticed that Ellisalde is benched. What's his form like this season then, TheBoy?

No idea about this season tbh - haven't seen much TOP14 due to work. Last year Keleher was deffo ahead of Ellisalde in the pecking order - not wothout reason IMO. Ellisalde played 10 a lot in fact.

 

[The Boy]

Well, the AIs can be written off. Beauxis and Trinh-Duc have pulled out of the squad and been replaced by Traille and Skrela.

Bugger.

 

[bendeus]

Wales abounds with rumours of changes in the back line for the first AI against SA. Most interesting is the 13 position. Tom Shanklin is in such woeful form at present he cannot even get a start for the Blues, with Dai young preferring the ever improving Jamie Roberts at 12 and Jamie Robinson at 13. There's no doubt that the combination is working, and that Robinson is more than arguably the form 13 in the country at present.

However, Robinson has been overlooked by Gatland, with the latter's obsession with strong defence working against the former. It's very possible that Wales will either start with Henson at 12 and Roberts at 13 (a position he has never played, which he has the physicality for but not the pace to go on the outside shoulder). Equally possible is for Shanks to start at 13 as he has done for Wales for some time, though this would show that WG is picking on reputation rather than form.

Interesting also that there's a strong chance that Leigh Halfpenny, who is going to develop into a tidy, tidy winger, could play ahead of the injured Mark Jones, though rumours also have it that Shanks could start there.

Getting excited, anyway. I'm hoping for P4 W2 L2 this autumn, with victories against Canada (obviously) and Australia. Any less and we're in trouble, with the same old self doubt, backbiting and unseemly bunfights ensuing. Any more and I may do a little man wee in celebration.

 

[The Boy]

Getting excited, anyway. I'm hoping for P4 W2 L2 this autumn, with victories against Canada (obviously) and Australia. Any less and we're in trouble, with the same old self doubt, backbiting and unseemly bunfights ensuing. Any more and I may do a little man wee in celebration.

To be honest, I'd be disappointed if you didn't put up umore of a fight against the saffers - possibly even a win. At least that way when we get spanked in the 6N I can sya we got beaten by the best team in the world.

 

[bendeus]

To be honest, I'd be disappointed if you didn't put up umore of a fight against the saffers - possibly even a win. At least that way when we get spanked in the 6N I can sya we got beaten by the best team in the world.

ROFL. I'll hold you to that in the unlikely event that it happens

 

[The Boy]

ROFL. I'll hold you to that in the unlikely event that it happens

TO be fair, the flipside is, if you get humped by SA and win another GS then I can say it's worthless because the quality of the opposition was so poor

 

[bendeus]

[/default Wales winning a GS mode on]

TO be fair, the flipside is, if you get humped by SA and win another GS then I can say it's worthless because the quality of the opposition was so poor

[/default Wales winning a GS mode off]