Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

The All New Education Debate

What to do?


  • Total voters
    51
No, Gmarthews, I'm state sector and would never diss other teachers who were actually doing their job. I was snide because it pisses me off when people who don't work AS teachers proclaim to know more about my job than I do. It's like stating you know how to fix the NHS when you went in to hospital to get a broken arm seen to.

I'm not saying the state sector is without it's flaws, but your "Fact" that we'd all jump ship to the private sector is, quite frankly, bollocks.
 
No, Gmarthews, I'm state sector and would never diss other teachers who were actually doing their job. I was snide because it pisses me off when people who don't work AS teachers proclaim to know more about my job than I do. It's like stating you know how to fix the NHS when you went in to hospital to get a broken arm seen to.

I'm not saying the state sector is without it's flaws, but your "Fact" that we'd all jump ship to the private sector is, quite frankly, bollocks.

As is your 'fact' that everyone is deliriously happy in the state sector.

You might have noticed that I stated that different institutions have different issues...
 
As is your 'fact' that everyone is deliriously happy in the state sector.

You might have noticed that I stated that different institutions have different issues...

She didn't say that, and it wasn't you who stated that different institutions have different issues, it was me!
 
BTW, these teachers that you know who want to switch to the private sector, would they be the FE teachers you work with?

If so, it's very easy for the teachers in some subjects to get work (English and Business Studies), but it's not terribly regular, the hours won't be full-time and the pay's way lower than in the state sector. In other subjects, the best they could get is tutoring, because there isn't much of a private FE sector, really.
 
As is your 'fact' that everyone is deliriously happy in the state sector.

You might have noticed that I stated that different institutions have different issues...
Can you quote where I said that please? I'm rereading my posts here and seem to have missed it.
 
I teach in the public sector, always have done. I love it. The budget for stuff isn't great, but we manage. the camaraderie among staff is great...

And then you put it forward as a general comment as opposed to a personal one by saying:

however, I doubt my first-hand experience of the situation matches your argument

Which has a certain air of contemptuousness, as you didn't know (yet) that I am working in an educational institution. You went on to imply that my view is prejudiced as I don't have the 'authority' of someone who works in the industry.

I do indeed work in a CFE at the moment, although I recognise that I haven't been there long. Which is why I hastened to reinforce the fact that every institution will have its own unique set of problems.

There is no doubt some great teaching in all sectors. The question is how can we improve the learning? Is the system optimal?
 
Gmarthews, I've worked in FE, HE, secondary state schools, primary state schools and private language colleges. (I currently worked in secondary, HE and a private language school, in three different jobs).

FE is very little like working in secondary education. There are a few similarities, and some of the skills are transferable, but the working conditions are completely and utterly different. I don't think you can claim to know a lot about secondary education unless you've either worked in it yourself or researched it a fair bit; you certainly can't claim to know a lot about secondary education because of your experiences in FE. (Doesn't mean you can't have an opinion, of course, but it does mean you can't claim FACT! like you have been doing).

Can you tell me which private FE sector your FE colleagues were planning on going to?
 
(Doesn't mean you can't have an opinion, of course, but it does mean you can't claim FACT! like you have been doing).

It is a fact what they have been saying.

Can you tell me which private FE sector your FE colleagues were planning on going to?

They are not planning to be in the FE sector - far from it - they are aiming at the secondary sector and they are qualified to do so.

I am surprised at your attitude here. All I am doing is to have a debate. I am aware that I do not have the best experience in the world - yet I have some and it is significant. As you say I am entitled to my opinion and I don't feel that I have been out of order with my views.

If the private sector is not poaching teachers from the public sector, using the league tables as an indicator of potential targets, then that is extraordinary! Could it be the only sector I which doesn't suffer from this?

If I were them I would ensure that the pressures and money were far better there. For example a Maths or Science teacher, being greatly in demand might be in a position to insist on an admin assistant to help with the non-teaching aspects of his or her job.

Why not? If you are in demand then you hold the aces, and can ask for what you want. It is the private sector which has the ability to do this because the state schools are not independent enough from the central control to adjust to this.
 
It is a fact what they have been saying.

That's not what you claimed was a fact, was it?

They are not planning to be in the FE sector - far from it - they are aiming at the secondary sector and they are qualified to do so.

TBH, unless they have good connections, they won't have much of a chance. To teach in state secondary schools, you not only have to have a PGCE, you have to have a PGCE with QTS (Qualified Teacher Status). An FE PGCE doesn't give you that.

The private sector tends to expect new teachers to be at least as well qualified as state school teachers these days, except in a few subjects like Latin.

I am surprised at your attitude here. All I am doing is to have a debate. I am aware that I do not have the best experience in the world - yet I have some and it is significant. As you say I am entitled to my opinion and I don't feel that I have been out of order with my views.

I have answered tons and tons of your points and debated with you on nearly every topic you raised in the first post.

If the private sector is not poaching teachers from the public sector, using the league tables as an indicator of potential targets, then that is extraordinary! Could it be the only sector I which doesn't suffer from this?

League tables don't tell you which teachers are doing well, and they don't tell you why teachers are doing well.

If I were them I would ensure that the pressures and money were far better there. For example a Maths or Science teacher, being greatly in demand might be in a position to insist on an admin assistant to help with the non-teaching aspects of his or her job.

Why not? If you are in demand then you hold the aces, and can ask for what you want. It is the private sector which has the ability to do this because the state schools are not independent enough from the central control to adjust to this.

Some private schools might be able to do that for some maths and science teachers, it's true, so yeah, perhaps some private schools (the few with tons of money) can woo away some teachers (though the security of state school jobs tends to still be a big incentive not to leave). But that still does not mean those teachers are the best teachers, which was your claim.

BTW: teachers in state schools are not supposed to do the non-teaching aspects of their job either, and do have people to do those tasks (like photocopying and putting up displays) for them.
 
Back
Top Bottom