The all boxing thread

Discussion in 'general sports' started by muser, Mar 19, 2006.

  1. muser

    muser New Member

    I don't care if this thread is a slow burner or a non starter, but I've seen some great fights off of the world boxing video archive. You won't get digital quality but what you will get is a chance to see some great action.
    I just saw Ray mercer vs Tommy morrison, what a fight. Mercer loses 3 rounds and takes some vicious shots in the bargain, but comes back in the forth to rock and stop his man.
    Can anyone tell me of any fights I should be thinking of downloading. Has anyone seen the hasim rahman v james toney fight, which happened last saturday. A few boys on eastside are calling it a robbery.
    For those who saw it, questions 1) did rahman get hookwinked, Q2) was it as bad as lewis v holyfield I.
    Just a reminder, this thread is for all those interested in boxing.
  2. Jo/Joe

    Jo/Joe New Member

    Don't know about that, but I was impressed with Tony Jeffries at the Commonwealth Games earlier. Fights at light heavyweight, looks to have very sharp reactions.
  3. Numbers

    Numbers an ting!

    Muser me old mucker, fyi there's a few boxing fans on here, but... too few and far between to engage in serious boxing debate... although it would be nice, and a very welcome addition imo, you're better off on Boxrec, Eastside or even the WBVA forums...

    however, what should you be downloading? that depends, are you after the greatest fights of all time or just good old fights? there's a download on WBVA of every Ring magazing voted fight of the year since 1971.. that'd be a good start for ya. Also check some of the HBO Legendary Nights, you can snatch some of the best rivalries of all time.

    Rahman v Toney was a strange one, and a fight/result which epitimises the fucked upness of the alphabets, as opposed to a linear champ... personally I thought Rahman won the fight simply because he was busier and always coming forward... but, this is where boxings greatest divide in relation to the logistic of success rears it's head. Toney had a better success rate but only threw 60odd% of the punches Rahman did. This is where it all depends on the judges, some prefer a fighter to be busy, others prefer a cleaner success rate, but imo Rahman won, but only narrowly.

    I don't understand what you mean when you ask if he was hoodwinked, hoodwinked means to be deceived... so in what way was Rahman deceived, or hoodwinked. He won, but narrowly. Toney has always been one of the greatest defensive fighters of all time, his gameplan was good, i.e. bring Rahman to the ropes and work on the inside... but he was only a shadow of what he used to be... fucking shame! Rahman et al are merely filling the positions at the minute, thus why most purists are concentrating on the lighter men, which is a shame, cos the big guys are usually the blue ribbons.

    Was it as bad as Lewis v Holyfiels? again, it was/is hard to be definitive. 'They say' that to beat a champion you have to be head and shoulders above and to take the belt from him, leave no room for doubt... but this is boxing man. Lewis beat Holyfield that night, but he didn't beat him, iykwim.

    There's been so many decisions over recent years, never mind in the history of the sport, that stink to the high heavens. Take Barrera v Morrales for example, in the first fight in 2000 Morrales blatantly lost, but got the decision, in the 2nd fight in 2002 he blatantly won, but Barrera got the decision, etc...

    there's so so many over the years...

    post a thread (if you're a member) on either Eastside or Boxrec and you'll get the info' you need.

    soz this is short... chop chop busy busy work work bang bang at the mo'.

    good idea for a thread... good luck keeping it buyoant, resurrect it from time to time, I will...


    zzzZZZZ ;)
  4. upsidedownwalrus

    upsidedownwalrus RIP R.I.P.

    The greatest fight of all time, IMO, is of course Hearns v Hagler. Although you probably already know that.

    I would rate Barrera Morales I as up there too, although I haven't seen the others.

    I know what Tony means about how lewis won but didn't in the first fight with Holyfield. It was one of those fights where you can go through and give each round to Lewis, but it's never definitive, it's not like the Calzaghe Lacey fight was where Calzaghe utterly outclassed him and a verdict for Lacey would have been ludicrous.

    Having said that, round 5 of Lewis-Holyfield I, where Lewis landed virtiually every punch of the round, and which that Eugenia Williams gave to Holyfield, was ludicrous...
  5. muser

    muser New Member


    In my initial post I use some london parlances and jovial banter to get the potential viewers of the thread into the right mood. I did download and see the rahman fight, rahman did win but by no mean dominated toney. Toney was carrying alot of weight and could have come in at 215 - 220lb and got the nod from the judges.
    The owner of the WBVA likes people to reseed clips they have downloaded, I've done this but the site won't allow me to download any more fight.
    The site talks about a 0.2 ratio being met, is this anything to do with the amount of people taking files off of me, and if no one does then am I in limbo until they do?
  6. upsidedownwalrus

    upsidedownwalrus RIP R.I.P.

    Yeah ratios are about leaving something to upload after you've finished downloading it...

    The problem, of course, with sites which demand a ratio, is that because everyone is trying to get a decent ratio, it can be difficult to get one, as there are loads of seeders and not enough leechers. Whereas on the public torrent sites, whcih don't demand a ratio, you get slow downloads but no probs getting a ratio. It's quite frustrating... Especially when there are other people seeding with way better connections etc than you. And you're making the effort to seed but not much is happening to your ratio. I think it's good as a way to filter out the real smash-and-grab selfish downloaders, but think some sites are a bit strict towards people who are trying to share, but aren't physically able due to internet speeds/routers etc to share a vast amount...
  7. upsidedownwalrus

    upsidedownwalrus RIP R.I.P.

    Didn't lennox lewis fight Ray Mercer at one point? If it's the Mercer I'm thinking of, he had possibly the best chin of all time. Almost un-knockoutable... Seemed to be made out of concrete...
  8. Numbers

    Numbers an ting!



    By William Dettloff

    It’s undeniable that Saturday night’s draw between Hasim Rahman and James Toney got us not one inch closer to identifying the heavyweight world champion—something that, in this business, is, well, a nice thing to have.

    Neither Rahman nor Toney was very good; Rahman was busier and stronger and good at moving his hands around a lot in this or that direction, but not much more. Toney was occasionally brilliant, often languid, and strangely prone to stumbling backward when missing haymaker right hands—and even more oddly, when landing them.

    As was correctly and repeatedly observed throughout the HBO telecast, so much of this fight was about moving the division forward, and, it is implied, the sport itself along with it. That’s what all contests are supposed to do, really. That’s why they set them up and why we watch them. To see who goes forward and who drops out. To find out who is at the top of the heap and who can’t cut it. It’s all about positioning and moving toward resolution. That’s what we’re forever chasing: the final act. We want to know who is The Man. That’s why we show up.

    Here’s the rub: On those occasions during the sport’s history when the division has moved forward like we think we want it to and we found that dominant, alpha-male heavyweight champion—Dempsey, Louis, Holmes to some degree, Tyson, probably Lennox Lewis—we complained because there was no one around who could give the champ a fight. It got boring.

    Think back to when Tyson was at his peak and fight fans complained they couldn’t stand to put on a heavyweight title fight anymore because it was over in 40 seconds. “Where’s all the competition?” they cried. Moreover, we always want someone to beat him. Didn’t matter if he was a villain like Tyson or a lukewarm hero like Lewis. When a heavyweight champ is dominant, the only fun comes in wondering when someone will cut him down to size and how. We rush a guy to the top of the mountain just for the pleasure of watching him get knocked off.

    Right now there is no dominant heavyweight. It happens. And all the guys who are vying to be that guy are at about the same level. That doesn’t mean they’re bums. It doesn’t mean they can’t fight. It means they’re all about as good as one another. They’re all good and they’re all flawed. They can’t all be Alpha males. They can only be what they are. That’s what they’re doing.

    You can’t read an article anymore that doesn’t talk about how bad the heavyweight division is. Recently, a guy wrote today’s top contenders wouldn’t stand a chance against the bunch that was routinely ridiculed throughout the 1980s—Greg Page, Tony Tubbs, Pinklon Thomas, et al. The same group Tyson rescued us from. That’s absurd. The only thing that makes today’s group look bad is there’s no dominant guy among them. That’s not a crime.

    So what do we do about this quandary? Nothing, really. Except one thing: stop looking for the resolution. Forget about moving things forward. Stop complaining. Let it go, that need to have everything settled. Enjoy these heavyweight fights for what they are—fights between pretty evenly matched big guys. Some will be good, some bad, like everything else. But for now, forget about finding The Man. He’ll show up sooner or later. He always does. There will be plenty of time to complain then.

    From here
  9. muser

    muser New Member

    Monday and the world is stil here

    These are off eastside boxing.

    jim - email
    Slava your articles are very real, high quality, and intellegently thought out. I'd say that most boxing fans can atleast 'see' your point of view if they don't agree with it. Karen's articles are in my opinion are so far out there, that it's got to be just to rattle cages. If your articles weren't in tune with reality, you'd probably get much more action. Even the most biased of boxing fans couldn't intellegently make predictions such as Karen's. Wlad losing a rematch to byrd, is not only the most rediculous thing i've read today, but the odds of this even being talked about outside her article and these comments is a million to one. I hate to disrespect anyone and don't mean to talk down about anyone, but this type of article is just outrageous.

    MRBILL - email
    Fernando Vargas showed NOTHING last night. FV was slow as all hell as well.. The middleweights will KILL him... The left hook that parked Vargas' ass reminded me of the hook that Ray Robinson exploded off of Gene Fullmer's jaw back in '57.... It was very similar.... However, Shane Mosley was in total control throughout; he didn't lose a round... Shane Mosley smoked Fernando Vargas with ease.... peace

    Castillejo doenst have any power; his 40 ko's were tomato cans of European extraction. He couldnt even really hurt Vargas, whose brittle chin had been dented plenty of times before they fought. I give props to Castillejo, but dont tell me he has any real power.

    Spinks lost, I had it 115 to 113 for Karmazin .....yet another bad decision....Like how Spinks did nothing the last 3 rounds and ran the entire 12th...what a disgrace.

    Comments like these have me in stitches.

    Ralphy Boy
  10. muser

    muser New Member

    The same.
  11. muser

    muser New Member

    A real fight, WBC title

    Junior witter is to take on demarcus "chop chop" corley on sept 15. The winner will be looking at a shot at hatton, who has moved back to junior welterweight. Can witter take chop chop, and then win vs hatton. I got alot of respect for witter and hope he at least wins against corley.
  12. Mikey77

    Mikey77 Banned Banned

    That's the one. Mercer gave him a hard fight and Lewis won by a single round at best, on my card anyway.

    The Morrison KO was brutal, but Mercer was a gold medalist from the 88 olympics. The same year Lewis won gold at superheavyweight.
  13. muser

    muser New Member

  14. The Boy

    The Boy danny la rouge is probably wrong.

    Right this may seem an odd qeustion but it's been bugging me for a couple of days now.

    The other day I watched extended highlights of the Marcel Cerdan v Tony Zale fight from 1940-something-or-other and Cerdan had a record something along the lines of 103 wins and 3 defeats. That's 106 fights by the age of 32. Zale himself had over 60 fights under his belt.

    Did boxers fight more often back then or what? If so, why? The money? Or do boxers nowadyas spend the early part of their career in amateur leagues leraning their trade? Any light to be shed gratefully received.

  15. muser

    muser New Member

    The last sentence is what happens now. Darrell (touch of sleep) williamson had 89 - 106 amateur fights before turning pro. I would rather the amateur scene was televised.
  16. muser

    muser New Member

  17. Mikey77

    Mikey77 Banned Banned

    Oscar is crap these days. Sturm should really have outpointed him then nobody would be talking about Oscar. Mayweather should be fighting Hatton who has the right style to give him shit.

    I want Williams to KO Fraudley, but would like to have seen Skelton press him for 12 rounds.
  18. muser

    muser New Member


    I would have agreed with you about audley, until his recent interview. I'm beginning to *feel* for audley, and would like him to resurrect his career against williams. He has all the attributes to become a world champion (except stamina and the nuance required to survive when hurt) Sturm did beat Oscar, but seeing as Oscar had a multi million dollar fight with Hopkins next, they gave him the fight. Hatton is on record as saying he isn't ready for Mayweather. Now or never.
  19. Mikey77

    Mikey77 Banned Banned

    That's like saying he has all the attributes needed to fly, except wings. I kind of agree with you there, the heavyweight division could do with something new, but it just shouldn't be Audley and more than it should be Roman Greenburg or any other fighter who doesn't deserve it.

    When did Hatton say that? I'lll believe it when I see it.

    By the way I feel Sturm kind of deserved to lose just for being so tentative. He won in my mind, but that is boxing these days. The same with yanks fighting abroad, they know they will not get the decision.
  20. muser

    muser New Member

    The now or never bit was my interpretation on hatton's comments that he needs two fights in america before facing mayweather.


    Although mayweather does have a habit of pricing himself out of fights, and cherry picking opponents. Collazo really did a job on ricky (over 12 rounds), forcing the hitman to think about returning to the 140lb division.
    Ricky, IMHO, has a punchers chance against mayweather and nothing more.

    As for audley, think shannon briggs. Although briggs now has the WBO title. Both lack stamina, both have little or no defense, each fight in spurts.
    The HW division is so poor it allows for mediocrity. Hence my optimism, where audley is concerned.
  21. Mikey77

    Mikey77 Banned Banned

    I think Briggs is very inconsistent, but still has more than Audley. In fact Briggs gave a good performance and showed heart against Lewis until he was stopped. I have never seen Audley do the same in any fight.

    It isn't rare for a fighter to say he wants a couple more fights before fighting the best in the division, but what happened with Hatton and Colazzo can happen to any fighter when he meets a southpaw. The style is just so different, and Mayweather may find Hatton's style difficult as well. I'm not saying Hatton will win, but it is suprising how a boxer can crumble against a guy who can get in close. Jones v Glencoffe, Mosely v that tall guy who beat him twice. They were all the pound for pound best till they lost.
  22. Numbers

    Numbers an ting!

    I've nothing to say at this particular moment in time.... but I will be back. A boxing thread alive since March is tres :cool:

    and.. there just happens to be loads to talk about with that there boxing.
  23. ice-is-forming

    ice-is-forming Well-Known Member

    can we include kick boxing....if so john wayne parr versus anyone is a good watch :)
  24. urbaniser

    urbaniser New Member

    kick boxing sounds fun! actually boxing is a good sport but not meant for the sensitive souls!:D
    the old boxing days were best!
    i like briggs-he's good!
  25. Relahni

    Relahni New Member

    watched a fair bit of boxing this weekend.

    liked Thaxton v Meager. That cut was brutal. Liked his interview afterwards - "there must be an easier way to make a living" - with his eye hanging off. lol :D

    Kassim Ouma was a tough cookie v Taylor. I thought this one was going to be a complete shut out dull afair, was pretty good though.

    The Khan win and the Harrison v Williams thing didn't really do much for me in terms of excitement or enthusiasm.

    Knew Khan would win and if Harrison had of lost that fight against Williams who had taken the fight at 8 days notice it would have been a disgrace.
  26. Did you see berto fight last night ? what did you think of him ? i thought he looked a good prospect . Another Hearns is prowling around as well !!
  27. Mikey77

    Mikey77 Banned Banned

    Williams said he had been training, but I agree it wasn't that exciting. Harrison was only doing what he should always have been doing. If he can keep it up he's bound to get a title shot. He still hasn't had to fight back though.

    Khan just looks one dimensional to me and his opponent showed no desire until then last round. I hate all that smiling and touching gloves in a fight. It's a good indication that they guy has no venom in him.
  28. chriswill

    chriswill Misbehaving!

    We had a power cut here so i missed the big fight sunday morning.

    As for the Meager fight friday, I was routing for him to win casue he is a friend of mine.

    Too much of a task tho', It just seemed like Thaxton was destined to win it this time of asking.

    Looking forward to Hattons first fight in Vegas, we are tryign to round up about 6 of us to go out to see him fight, I'm really intrested to see what kind of travelling support he will get.
  29. muser

    muser New Member

    It goes both ways. would you rather fake venom in the form of the tyson v lewis pre fight conference. Tyson appeared so contrite in the post fight interview, it was hard to fathom his earlier actions.
    Khan looked good in the opening rounds. I saw drilzane throw a punch that my mind swore hit khan, but khan wasn't there to receive it.
    Although khan was rattled on a few occasions, by a fighter who isn't noted for his punching power. Which worries me.
  30. Nigel Irritable

    Nigel Irritable Five, Ten, Fifteen Years

    Khan is by no means the finished product at the moment.

    We don't how good his chin is because he hasn't been hit by any power punchers yet. That doesn't mean that his chin is bad, it means it hasn't been tested. He didn't seem to be in any kind of trouble to me in this fight despite being caught flush on a few occasions, but it's hard to know what that means. The guy he was fighting is a non-puncher, but he was also a lot heavier than anyone else Khan has been hit by. A more immediate problem is his tendency to keep his left hand low and his chin out, which means he gets hit by far too many rights. If he keeps getting hit like that we'll find out how good his chin is a lot sooner than he would want.

    On the other hand, why would you expect a kid his age in his 10th professional fight after a very brief, if spectacular, amateur career to be the finished product? The important thing is for him to keep progressing and learning his trade, gradually facing stronger and stronger opponents.

    The hype around him is going to make him a rich man, but it also leads to unrealistic expectations and can lead to a reaction against him or a dismissal of him when he fails to walk on water. I'd also be a bit worried about the tendency of big name British boxers to spend years fighting stiffs in front of big hometown crowds. Think of Hatton's career before (and so far after) fighting Tszyu and think of much of Calzhaghe's career. That's the safest way for a promoter and a boxer to make a lot of money with little or no risk. But that's a worry for the future - it is stupid to expect Khan to be fighting top class boxers right from the start and doing so prematurely can set back a career for years. Just ask Junior Witter.

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