That place for young hip and trendy people
- Thread starter Aitch
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hipipol
Peckham Wry
Suzee Blue Cheese posting as Hipipol:
It's a minimalist style restaurant bar. We went a couple of nights ago to check it out. I was put off going in by the overbright lighting and the fishbowl atmosphere but we'd arranged to meet peeps inside and there was no turning back.
The food apparantly was good, but looked like very small portions to me, especially the seabass. I doubt I'd go there to eat. The food took ages to come, about 45 minutes. They brought a glass of champagne each to compensate which was a nice touch, especially as me and Hipipol got one too and we weren't even eating. Maybe the food was so late arriving because there was a birthday crowd in that night.
The music was global, I liked it.
I have friends who got together a place in Lordship Lane - I know how much hard work and planning that took and the financial risk they took to get it off the ground. Best of luck to the crew behind this one - as has been pointed out, if you don't like it don't go. It's not like it's replaced anything. Though I did have a great fondness for the red, blue and yellow of the old Howes facade.
And I'm with Mike on offering thanks to above it's not another nail bar
It's a minimalist style restaurant bar. We went a couple of nights ago to check it out. I was put off going in by the overbright lighting and the fishbowl atmosphere but we'd arranged to meet peeps inside and there was no turning back.
The food apparantly was good, but looked like very small portions to me, especially the seabass. I doubt I'd go there to eat. The food took ages to come, about 45 minutes. They brought a glass of champagne each to compensate which was a nice touch, especially as me and Hipipol got one too and we weren't even eating. Maybe the food was so late arriving because there was a birthday crowd in that night.
The music was global, I liked it.
I have friends who got together a place in Lordship Lane - I know how much hard work and planning that took and the financial risk they took to get it off the ground. Best of luck to the crew behind this one - as has been pointed out, if you don't like it don't go. It's not like it's replaced anything. Though I did have a great fondness for the red, blue and yellow of the old Howes facade.
And I'm with Mike on offering thanks to above it's not another nail bar
"I have friends who got together a place in Lordship Lane - I know how much hard work and planning that took and the financial risk they took to get it off the ground. Best of luck to the crew behind this one - as has been pointed out, if you don't like it don't go. It's not like it's replaced anything. Though I did have a great fondness for the red, blue and yellow of the old Howes facade."
I do agree with this. And I do realise it's easy to criticise. But nevertheless I find this place terrifically bland and predictable looking. It seems to be attracting people who are nicely-dressed, not too loud, not very noticeable, etc, etc. It's pretty irrelevant to many people in Brixton I feel. Too expensive and too damn dull. Sorry.
All I can say to the people runnng it is that I hope they can in time give it more character and personality (which in a way is anti-style, anti-fashion). Then again if they want the office party crowd I'm sure it'll do just fine as it is.
I do agree with this. And I do realise it's easy to criticise. But nevertheless I find this place terrifically bland and predictable looking. It seems to be attracting people who are nicely-dressed, not too loud, not very noticeable, etc, etc. It's pretty irrelevant to many people in Brixton I feel. Too expensive and too damn dull. Sorry.
All I can say to the people runnng it is that I hope they can in time give it more character and personality (which in a way is anti-style, anti-fashion). Then again if they want the office party crowd I'm sure it'll do just fine as it is.
Reposted from comments in the politics forum:
"In a study in gentrified areas of Lambeth, Islington, Hackney, Lewisham and Wandsworth, Tim Butler found “little evidence of the middle class deploying its resources for the benefits of the wider community.” He says: “London’s middle classes share a common relationship to each other which is largely exclusive of those who are not ‘people like us’ – most strikingly perhaps in relation to their ethnicity. In a city that is massively multi-ethnic, its middle classes, despite long rhetorical flushes in favour of multi-culturalism and diversity, huddle together into essentially white settlements in the inner city. Their children have friends like their parents and most of their parents’ friends are people like themselves.”
Sadly this is true of many people.
"In a study in gentrified areas of Lambeth, Islington, Hackney, Lewisham and Wandsworth, Tim Butler found “little evidence of the middle class deploying its resources for the benefits of the wider community.” He says: “London’s middle classes share a common relationship to each other which is largely exclusive of those who are not ‘people like us’ – most strikingly perhaps in relation to their ethnicity. In a city that is massively multi-ethnic, its middle classes, despite long rhetorical flushes in favour of multi-culturalism and diversity, huddle together into essentially white settlements in the inner city. Their children have friends like their parents and most of their parents’ friends are people like themselves.”
Sadly this is true of many people.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I did walk by it a last week.I believe the Chef is the guy who used to work in the Dogstar on Sundays(I saw him through the window).He has been knocking around Brixton for a long time and lives locally.I dont know him that well but I know he has wanted to try and get his own place for a while.
Atlantic Rd always did have a range of shops in it-regeneration just means that they are different.I remember a useful second-hand shop run by an old lady who had lived in Brixton all her life.You could get second hand gas fires their etc(u cant do that these days)which where handy for "self help" repairs.
Their also used to be a pie shop as well.
Atlantic Rd did have a large off licence and at times the "Frontline" did reach that for down.
The interesting characters who ran the shops have now finally retired.
Atlantic Rd always did have a range of shops in it-regeneration just means that they are different.I remember a useful second-hand shop run by an old lady who had lived in Brixton all her life.You could get second hand gas fires their etc(u cant do that these days)which where handy for "self help" repairs.
Their also used to be a pie shop as well.
Atlantic Rd did have a large off licence and at times the "Frontline" did reach that for down.
The interesting characters who ran the shops have now finally retired.
Hatboy, you always hit on the right points, thanks for posting this.
The problem with half of these new spots ("Nu-Minamilist Style Bars/Dining Concepts") is that they simply cater for middle class "white" people ONLY!
The menu's, the drinks list, the pricelist, the door policies, need I say anymore!!!
Exactly. There's something essentially racist about gentrification where there's a large working class ethnic minority population, i.e. in Lambeth (190 languages spoken within a population of some 270,000).
Why? For precisely for the reasons given by Tim Butler. The non-white UK middle class is small compared to the white middle class. So if a multi-racial area is gentrified it drives out the non-whites in favour of whites.
In an employment situation such a practice would be illegal - it would be indirect race discrimination (which may attract uncapped damages at an employment tribunal). But it's legal - apparently - to do this in the housing field via market-led gentrification.
BTW is that Tim Butler from East London University?
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
The article with the Tim Butler quote was written from a London Tenant Federation perspective and appeared in London Housing magazine. The site is a pain to navigate full article here
I've read the whole of that article and I agree with all of it except the last line. I think you can have "socially-mixed" areas in any way I can think of, except when there's a big disparity in wealth and access to housing. And there are other things as well, but what I'm getting at is that I don't think people of different religions, different races, different nationalities, etc generally have much problem with eachother until things like access to housing and rich/poor being too far apart come into such sharp focus. Oh, and policing. I mean million pound houses next to council estates (even if they're not falling to bits) is rubbing it in a bit IMHO.
The key difference between "race discrimination" in employment and the effects of gentrification on an area is that in the former case, there is a central person you can blame for causing that discrimination, whereas the gentrification of an area happens because of a thousand individual decisions that people make about where they want to buy or rent houses and flats, and work, and those decisions are not made because of racism, are they?
Giles..
Totally untrue. Gentrification occurs because local politicians permit it, e.g. signing off public housing to be flogged to property developers and yuppies. And sometimes turning up at the auction to bid for it themselves!!! (see other thread).
They can then pretend - to avoid political flack - it's all due to forces beyond their control. It's the great 'market forces' politicial trick. You permit market forces to let rip then pretend it's all beyond your control.
This applies especially in Brixton where gentrification is essentially racist - it drives out blacks in favour of whites.
And what Brixton politician wants to be (quite properly) accused of being racist in housing provision? It's a politicial kiss of death.
Luckly lots of people are watching the buggers closely and will have their bollocks if they try to play this racist trick in any major way in central Brixton.
editor
hiraethified
I think that's too simplistic: the seeds of gentrification are often sewn by artists/musicians/creative types moving into a run-down area and creating the sort of vibrant 'Boho' community that yuppies want a slice of.
Private landlords and entrepreneurs are usually first in line to up the rent as the place starts to feature in the style mags and thus the process of driving out locals begins.
I can't see how you can blame that process entirely on politicians, although they no doubt play a part in the later development of a yuppified area.
Athos
Well-Known Member
I'm very interested by your argument, and it's not something I've considerd before. However, I'm not sure that I agree with you entirely. How does it 'drive out blacks in favour of whites'? Are black people leaving because they don't want to live there, or because they can't afford to? Also, how would you remedy the problem?
OK fair enough. But there's still no need for the politicians to respond to the gentrifying pressures caused by the Bohos. When the property developers come calling they can take a political decision to tell them to fuck off.
And the politicians must not attend auctions of public housing in the hope of buying something cheap.
For the reasons given. There's only a small non-white UK middle class. So if an area's gentrified it becomes, effectively, a private reserve, a security estate, for relatively wealthy whites.
Market forces does the actual dirty work but those who permit market forces to let rip (i.e. local politicians signing off housing for sale to property developers) are responsible for the racist result.
Councils selling properties plays a part, but only a small one. Most incoming "gentrifiers" are buying traditional older houses, not ex-local council flats.
Gentrification generally begins when people realise that an inner-city area, previously regarded as undesirable, is actually good value, with lots of (relatively cheap) and nice property.
And then it snowballs from there - once you have a critical mass of richer incomers, property prices rise, and this encourages more existing owners to sell up, and also new businesses (like style bars, upmarket restaurants and so on) start up to cater for the new residents, etc etc, and so it goes on.
And in some areas (including Brixton, and also Hoxton, Shoreditch etc) gentrification is also driven by people wanting to buy in to an area perceived to be "cutting edge", "trendy" etc
It suits your point of view to be able to blame a single entity for the changes in an area, but the truth of it is not that simple.
And as for the "racist" angle, are you saying it is racist because no black people have money? If I buy a house in Brixton for a lot of money, am I being racist? Or is the person who sells it to me racist?
Giles..
Athos
Well-Known Member
Do you really think the issue is as simple as that? Do you think that Brixton is becoming gentrified because local politicians are trying to drive out black people by selling properties to developers etc.? Personally, I'd be more inclined to think that they're encouraging the gentrifiation for financial reasons.
Athos
Well-Known Member
By attempting to prevent 'gentrification', the Local Government would be discriminating against the middle class, where, as you have said, white people are over-represented. Equally, therefore, that would be an instance of 'indirect' discrimination.
I don't necessarily have a problem with that, but I think it's a bit disingenous of you to accuse the Local Government of racial discrimination (seemingly on principle) and then argue for another form of it.
No. I'm arguing for the state to use it's considerable powers to prevent market forces shafting poor people. In Brixton many of these poor people will be non-white.
Wealthy whites who want to live in Brixton have tons of houses to buy. The only "discrimination" against whites I'm arguing for is that they not be permitted, by politicians via property developers, to shove poor people out of their homes so they can take them over.
Fair enough?
Athos -- what is your point exactly? 
Are you saying that Anna Key is arguing for racial discrimination? Either you are setting up a particularly nasty straw man or you haven't properly read or understood AK's posts.
If you refute the suggestion that there is racial discrimination in LBL, I suggest you take a look at the transcripts of the Alex Owolade tribunal, which found CLEAR cases of race discrimination only a few months ago.
Are you saying that Anna Key is arguing for racial discrimination? Either you are setting up a particularly nasty straw man or you haven't properly read or understood AK's posts.
If you refute the suggestion that there is racial discrimination in LBL, I suggest you take a look at the transcripts of the Alex Owolade tribunal, which found CLEAR cases of race discrimination only a few months ago.
Athos
Well-Known Member
This is really an issue of poverty and class, rather than one of race. I feel that your comments on race are a red herring, and distract us from the real issue. I don't know what your agenda is for framing this issue as one of race, but I think I have shown that, equally, one could argue that taking measures to maintain the status quo are examples of 'indirect discriminatiom'.
With regard to the real issue, I think that there should be plenty of public housing, and more schemes for 'affordable' private housing. I would halt the selling off of Local Authority housing, and offer incentives for developers to provide cheap housing.
That, however, would not be enough to prevent gentrification, in my opinion. Do you propose going further in the state using it's 'considerable powers'?
editor
hiraethified
Unfortunately, by that time, the property developers are holding all the aces over cash-strapped councils desperate to balance the books....and the councils would argue that by getting a maximum return on their properties they're serving their community better.
Of course, one of the roots of gentrification goes back further to the fucking disgraceful, despicable Tory decision to flog off council properties.
The fucking fuckers.
I disagree. For the reasons already given. Poverty, class and race combine in Brixton. Why do people get so nervous about arguments involving race? If a policy - in this case a housing policy - has an outcome of indirect race discrimination why not say so loud and clear?
Compulsory labour for the bourgeoisie!
Athos
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by IntoStella
Athos -- what is your point exactly?
Are you saying that Anna Key is arguing for racial discrimination? Either you are setting up a particularly nasty straw man or you haven't properly read or understood AK's posts.
If you refute the suggestion that there is racial discrimination in LBL, I suggest you take a look at the transcripts of the Alex Owolade tribunal, which found CLEAR cases of race discrimination only a few months ago.
I am saying that the focus on race is an unjustified one. In my opinion, this is a matter of poverty and class, not race.
To do so, I highlighted how the argument of 'indirect discrimination' doesn't carry a great deal of weight, because it could equally be applied to any counter-measures to preserve the status quo.
I think I did understand AK comments, and I'm not accusing her of being a racist, any more than she is accusing the local councillors, rather I am saying that measures to keep the middle class out of Brixton are just as much examples of 'indirect discrimination' as measures to get them in. And that, in discussing it, we're diverted from the real issue.
I didn't refute the suggestion that there is racism in LBL, rather I thought that that is not the motivating factor in the process of gentrification.
I can only assume that you don't live in or around Brixton or you would see that race is an absolutely central issue here, particularly when it comes to things like selling social housing stock to property developers, who will then sell it on to the rich -- and predominantly white -- at hugely inflated prices.
Refusing to acknowledge race as a crucial political issue in an area like this is synonymous with -- and facilitates -- institutional racism. It's what happened in the Owolade case, where victims of racial abuse were disciplined for complaining! The council's policy (testified by an officer under oath) was that all racism complaints were false and malicious -- especially if they were made by people of West Indian origin!
It is an incredible document and a shocking testament to what happens when race is swept under the carpet.
