That creepily gay talent show is doing Oliver!. aaaaaaaah

[Reno]

BTW I know gay people (as in they like the same sex) who refer to dodgy stuff as gay - are they being homophobic?

1. You do know that it's generally fine for a black person to refer to themselves as a nigger, but that most of the time it's not fine for a white person to do so, right ?

2. ...having said that, every time this comes up someone justifies the misappropriation of the word "gay" by homophobes by saying exactly what you just said. The thing is, I have never heard a gay person use the word in this way unless maybe it was in a knowingly ironic way that acknowledged its homophobic implications. As a gay man I don't know any gay people who use the word in the way the OP does. One day I actually would like to meet these gays people like you mention on internet forums, because I haven't come across them in real life.

3. ...and lets not even get into other shit mentioned by the OP like "grooming" which has nasty connotations for linking homosexuality with pedophilia in a way that is frequently used to discriminate against gays.

 

[Kidda]

What did firky have to say? Was it insightful in anyway?

BTW I know gay people (as in they like the same sex) who refer to dodgy stuff as gay - are they being homophobic?

us queers are far too cool to say something as lame as that, smack your poof palls and tell them to fix up

i have to admit i found firkys thread title out of order too but it had been binned by then.

just as an interesting side i did some research not so long ago with some LGBTQQ young peeps around homophobic language and the majority of the ones who had been bullied at school because of their sexuality/percieved sexuality and/or gender (70 out of 101 yps) stated that the word gay was used all the time as an insult. Those same young peeps said that the main result of that was depression, denial of sexuality and suicidal feelings/thoughts (66, 64, 48 respectivley)

It would have been interesting to do some research with the young people who were using the word 'gay' as an insult and seen if they had see the words 'paki' and 'nigger' just as acceptable.

i wonder if the OP uses the word 'paki' in a similar way to gay?

 

[sojourner]

Well said Reno and Kidda

I had this conversation with someone else on here a few months ago, and I said the same things - I don't know any gay people who refer to stuff/people as 'so gay', apart from my daughter who says it to her gay male mate as an affectionate tease

 

[moomoo]

Sorry, this thread made me laugh. I imagined the OP as an 11 year old boy because 'gay' is the word my boy uses when he is really cross or doesn't like something.

If he calls me gay then I know I'm really in deep shit.

I don't know anyone over 12 who uses it that way though. Although a little girl in my smallest sons class did say to me once 'I bet you're a lesbian, aren't you?'

Anyway, I like these sort of talent shows so I'll be watching it.

 

[Augie March]

creepily gay

Is there such a thing as creepily straight as well?

I'd imagine if there was, then it'd probably apply to the entire programming output of Nuts TV.

 

[october_lost]

Fair points by Reno and Kidda...

 

[jæd]

us queers are far too cool to say something as lame as that, smack your poof palls and tell them to fix up

i have to admit i found firkys thread title out of order too but it had been binned by then.

just as an interesting side i did some research not so long ago with some LGBTQQ young peeps around homophobic language and the majority of the ones who had been bullied at school because of their sexuality/percieved sexuality and/or gender (70 out of 101 yps) stated that the word gay was used all the time as an insult. Those same young peeps said that the main result of that was depression, denial of sexuality and suicidal feelings/thoughts (66, 64, 48 respectivley)

It would have been interesting to do some research with the young people who were using the word 'gay' as an insult and seen if they had see the words 'paki' and 'nigger' just as acceptable.

i wonder if the OP uses the word 'paki' in a similar way to gay?

Interesting research but try explaining this to straight people...!

 

[mrsfran]

Interesting research but try explaining this to straight people...!

How's that? Are all straight people not going to understand this then?

 

[jæd]

How's that? Are all straight people not going to understand this then?

Not *all* straight people, but enough to make it an overly laboured argument...

 

[mrsfran]

So.. most, then? You'd say the majority of straight people can't understand why the word "gay" used as a perjorative is offensive?

 

[jæd]

So.. most, then? You'd say the majority of straight people can't understand why the word "gay" used as a perjorative is offensive?

Enough so that it appears to come as a revelation to some that the word "gay" being used in this was is perceived as homophobic... All see the the BBC response to complaints over the use of this word by Chris Moyles...

 

[Reno]

i have to admit i found firkys thread title out of order too but it had been binned by then.

I found it out of oder too, but within the context of what was being said I found it less offensive than this. firky likes a good bin race and that's all I saw it as.

 

[mrsfran]

Enough so that it appears to come as a revelation to some that the word "gay" being used in this was is perceived as homophobic... All see the the BBC response to complaints over the use of this word by Chris Moyles...

But you understand why it's a little annoying to those of us who do recognise and challenge homophobia when we see it, to be dismissed with "try explaining that to straight people".

It's not all straight people, not even the majority, just some idiots. Let's leave the ignorance and generalisations to them, eh?

 

[Kidda]

Sorry, this thread made me laugh. I imagined the OP as an 11 year old boy because 'gay' is the word my boy uses when he is really cross or doesn't like something.

If he calls me gay then I know I'm really in deep shit.

I don't know anyone over 12 who uses it that way though. Although a little girl in my smallest sons class did say to me once 'I bet you're a lesbian, aren't you?'

Anyway, I like these sort of talent shows so I'll be watching it.

yeah because homophobia is fucking hilarious isnt it.

Tell that to the parents of the two young lads who have killed themselves in the past 8 months in just the one school, in manchester, because they were gay and couldnt hack the homophobic bullying they were getting.

moomoo if he called you a nigger would you laugh?

jesus wept.

 

[Kidda]

Interesting research but try explaining this to straight people...!

sorry mate im not sure i understand. Ive presented the research to a lot of straight people and it went down well and created some great debate.

homophobia needs to be tackled every time it appears, straight people have a part to play in that to and from my experience a lot of straight people i know do.

 

[sojourner]

yeah because homophobia is fucking hilarious isnt it.

moomoo if he called you a nigger would you laugh?

*nods*

My lass went through a fucking terrible time at school - not helped by teachers who would often use the word/phrase in exactly the same way the bullies did

 

[moomoo]

yeah because homophobia is fucking hilarious isnt it.

Tell that to the parents of the two young lads who have killed themselves in the past 8 months in just the one school, in manchester, because they were gay and couldnt hack the homophobic bullying they were getting.

moomoo if he called you a nigger would you laugh?

jesus wept.

I didn't say it was hilarious did I?

I was making the point that to use the word 'gay' as an insult was the sort of thing small boys did, not grown ups which I presume the op to be. Children will also say people are 'fat' and 'ugly' in the same way. It's just words. They are just children.

Sure, I discourage it as I discourage them from saying anything unkind about people but kids are kids.

I think you took my post a bit too seriously, it wasn't meant to be offensive, but I guess it's understandable if people near you have committed suicide through name calling.

Oh, and where I put that the thread made me laugh, it was purely because I imagined a small boy writing it when I read it. I think that may have caused confusion, sorry.

 

[sojourner]

It's just words. They are just children.

Sure, I discourage it as I discourage them from saying anything unkind about people but kids are kids.

That's the point moo - it's not JUST words, it's hurtful, hateful, ostracising and intimidating words. And they are not JUST children - they know right from wrong

 

[moomoo]

That's the point moo - it's not JUST words, it's hurtful, hateful, ostracising and intimidating words. And they are not JUST children - they know right from wrong

Yeah I know what you mean, but to be fair, they don't have the vocabulary just yet to express themselves properly. It's said in anger. You and I might call someone a fucking cunt but an 11 year old isn't going to say that so they will go for something like 'fat', 'ugly' or 'gay'. Isn't being called a 'cunt' as hurtful as being called 'ugly'? Insults are insults and are meant to hurt at the time.............

When he has called me gay, I've just responded with the fact that I'm not actually but I might meet a nice girl one day. That shuts him up. Likewise, if he says I'm fat, I will agree with him. What would you suggest as an alternative?


I'm not explaining this very well am I?

 

[Kidda]

I didn't say it was hilarious did I?

I was making the point that to use the word 'gay' as an insult was the sort of thing small boys did, not grown ups which I presume the op to be. Children will also say people are 'fat' and 'ugly' in the same way. It's just words. They are just children.

Sure, I discourage it as I discourage them from saying anything unkind about people but kids are kids.

I think you took my post a bit too seriously, it wasn't meant to be offensive, but I guess it's understandable if people near you have committed suicide through name calling.

Oh, and where I put that the thread made me laugh, it was purely because I imagined a small boy writing it when I read it. I think that may have caused confusion, sorry.

yeah sorry for swearing.

I find it hard not to take this kind of thing seriously because i get to see the effect it has on young kids all the time not to mention the fact that ive been there myself and still have to put up with homophobia and its effects.

Soj is right with what she says its not just words, gay is just as powerful as ''nigger'' or ''paki'' but i dont think its generally seen that way.
using the word 'gay' as an insult is just as bad and kids need to be taught that its wrong to use it in that way. From the work im doing at the moment im seeing that a lot of schools are too scared even now to approach the subject and clear guidelines and boundaries are being blurred. LGBTQ young people are often hidden, you cant know for sure who in your classroom is LGBTQ or not and if kids are using the word gay in a derogatory way and there is no positive reinforcement happening the effects on the coming out process for the young people can have dangerous consequences.

we've all got a part to play in fighting homophobia, just as with racism, sexism ect

It starts with talking about it.

 

[jæd]

yeah sorry for swearing.

I find it hard not to take this kind of thing seriously because i get to see the effect it has on young kids all the time not to mention the fact that ive been there myself and still have to put up with homophobia and its effects.

Soj is right with what she says its not just words, gay is just as powerful as ''nigger'' or ''paki'' but i dont think its generally seen that way.
using the word 'gay' as an insult is just as bad and kids need to be taught that its wrong to use it in that way. From the work im doing at the moment im seeing that a lot of schools are too scared even now to approach the subject and clear guidelines and boundaries are being blurred. LGBTQ young people are often hidden, you cant know for sure who in your classroom is LGBTQ or not and if kids are using the word gay in a derogatory way and there is no positive reinforcement happening the effects on the coming out process for the young people can have dangerous consequences.

we've all got a part to play in fighting homophobia, just as with racism, sexism ect

It starts with talking about it.

What he/she said...

 

[moomoo]

LGBTQ young people are often hidden, you cant know for sure who in your classroom is LGBTQ or not and if kids are using the word gay in a derogatory way and there is no positive reinforcement happening the effects on the coming out process for the young people can have dangerous consequences.

That's a fair point. I imagine it could put people off coming out and I'd never thought about it before tbf.

That's given me food for thought - thank you. I can use that as a starting point for a conversation next time someone uses gay as an insult.

 

[sojourner]

Yeah I know what you mean, but to be fair, they don't have the vocabulary just yet to express themselves properly. It's said in anger. You and I might call someone a fucking cunt but an 11 year old isn't going to say that so they will go for something like 'fat', 'ugly' or 'gay'. Isn't being called a 'cunt' as hurtful as being called 'ugly'? Insults are insults and are meant to hurt at the time.............

When he has called me gay, I've just responded with the fact that I'm not actually but I might meet a nice girl one day. That shuts him up. Likewise, if he says I'm fat, I will agree with him. What would you suggest as an alternative?


I'm not explaining this very well am I?

As an alternative, I would explain that there are things that people cannot change, such as the colour of their skin, and their sexuality. You can lose weight, you can put make up on and do your hair, you can change these things.

My lass was told by her teachers and by the LEA that the venomous homophobic bullying that she suffered every day for 3 years consisted of 'merely words, merely name calling', and as such, refused to do anything about it. They didn't even cover it in the school bullying policy. It took me and her a whole YEAR to get them to address it, and correct it, and thank christ laws do now actually exist to cover this type of bullying. We had to bring in the police, an external organisation, plus threats of legal action for them to lift a fucking finger. I think it's incredibly important for parents to educate their children at home with regard to all types of prejudice

 

[Julie]

I think it's incredibly important for parents to educate their children at home with regard to all types of prejudice

Me too.

And children do know right from wrong. Dismissing their insults as "just kids being kids" underestimates their intelligence.

 

[october_lost]

consisted of 'merely words, merely name calling', and as such, refused to do anything about it. They didn't even cover it in the school bullying policy.

Thats pretty saddening...

 

[moomoo]

Me too.

And children do know right from wrong. Dismissing their insults as "just kids being kids" underestimates their intelligence.

I'd love to live in this world of supremely intelligent children that everyone else seems to inhabit.

I asked my son today why he used it and he said because it was easy to say. No other reason whatsoever. So, there you go. That shows just how intelligent he is and what deep thought has gone into it.

 

[moomoo]

As an alternative, I would explain that there are things that people cannot change, such as the colour of their skin, and their sexuality. You can lose weight, you can put make up on and do your hair, you can change these things.

My lass was told by her teachers and by the LEA that the venomous homophobic bullying that she suffered every day for 3 years consisted of 'merely words, merely name calling', and as such, refused to do anything about it. They didn't even cover it in the school bullying policy. It took me and her a whole YEAR to get them to address it, and correct it, and thank christ laws do now actually exist to cover this type of bullying. We had to bring in the police, an external organisation, plus threats of legal action for them to lift a fucking finger. I think it's incredibly important for parents to educate their children at home with regard to all types of prejudice

That's outrageous! I think schools are too scared of getting involved these days. Well done both of you for challenging it and getting them to change the policy.

 

[jæd]

I'd love to live in this world of supremely intelligent children that everyone else seems to inhabit.

I asked my son today why he used it and he said because it was easy to say. No other reason whatsoever. So, there you go. That shows just how intelligent he is and what deep thought has gone into it.

Well, it would depend on how old your child is, and whether he is trying to get out of it or not...

 

[moomoo]

Well, it would depend on how old your child is, and whether he is trying to get out of it or not...

He's 11 and had nothing to get out of. I asked him a question, he replied. That was it. The conversation then moved onto whether 'paki' was a bad word as one of his (asian) friends had told him it was fine to use. I just told him that other people might not see it that way.

In my experience, kids just accept other kids as they are at this age. He would only fall out with someone if they nicked his football.

 

[maximilian ping]

oh dear. i was describing the programme because i couldnt remember the name. i don't understand why 'creepily gay' is anti-gay. if i was homophobic wouldnt i just say 'gay'? if i said creepliy clever it wouldnt mean i'm saying that clever is bad

i think too much is being made of my description of the show, which if you look at it with open eyes, is fine

and i certainly don't mean gay as in bad, like that thing kids and yuppies do