Tesco rakes in £1.1bn in six months

[Roadkill]

Rent must be a horrendous problem in London.

As for business rates, set them by floor area. Get rid of them altogether for very small shops, and tax anything supermarket-sized ... I'm tempted to say until it's uneconomic to run it, but maybe that's going a bit far.

 

[Giles]

I thought business rates already were, at least partially, governed by the size of the premises, as well as its location (you pay more for a premium "high street" shop than one in a secondary shopping street)?

How else do they work out how much each shop pays, if not by size?

And compared with a lot of the little "convenience" stores around where I live in London, the food at a newly-opened Tesco Express is cheaper, fresher, and sold in a nicer environment.

Giles..

 

[Roadkill]

I thought business rates already were, at least partially, governed by the size of the premises, as well as its location (you pay more for a premium "high street" shop than one in a secondary shopping street)?

I think they already are, but the differentials should be much greater.

And compared with a lot of the little "convenience" stores around where I live in London, the food at a newly-opened Tesco Express is cheaper, fresher, and sold in a nicer environment.

A lot of small general/convenience stores don't do themselves any favours, and whatever happens the independent sector all too often needs to raise its game. The fact remains, however, that on Woolwich market I can get a week's supply of fruit and veg for under a fiver, whereas the same basket in Somerfield or the Co-op would set me back nearer £10, and it'd be no better quality...

 

[Giles]

I think they already are, but the differentials should be much greater.



A lot of small general/convenience stores don't do themselves any favours, and whatever happens the independent sector all too often needs to raise its game. The fact remains, however, that on Woolwich market I can get a week's supply of fruit and veg for under a fiver, whereas the same basket in Somerfield or the Co-op would set me back nearer £10, and it'd be no better quality...

Fine, so, go to Woolwich market if you want to save that fiver. I am sure that plenty of other people will as well.

It seems to me that Tesco etc only got where they are now by giving people what they want. People are busy, people have busy jobs, and don't have time to go traipsing to the butcher, baker, greengrocer, etc.

They want to be able to go to one big shop, that sells all of the stuff they need for a week or so, park there, so they don't have to walk around for ages weighed down with heavy bags of stuff, and go home.

If someone provides that facility, people will make use of it. And if there's a an offy, and a petrol station, and a chemists, in the same place, they'll use those, too.

Round where I live, within 10 minutes walk, I could go to a dozen independent shops, many selling fresh fruit and veg, a market, a medium-sized Somerfield, a medium-sized Sainsburys, an M & S, a fucking big Sainsburys, or (most recently) 2 x Tesco Expresses.

Its not like people don't have any choice of where to go.

Giles..

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

I dunno about obscene, they are only catering to demand and doing so quite efficiently it would seem. We have only ourselves to blame IMO, preferring the increased choice, convenience and cheap prices of Tesco goods rather than those from our local shops and markets.

Cheap prices?

When I lived in Hackney I went to Tesco very rarely, mostly because it charged quite high prices for fruit and veg etc compared to some of my local Turkish-run shops.

 

[Roadkill]

Its not like people don't have any choice of where to go.

Giles..

Point is, all the evidence is that the number of outlets outside the big chains is plummeting. Plus, once a certain critical point is reached, the wholesalers etc that supply the indepedents will become unviable. If nothing is done soon, then that choice won't exist any more. Outside the major cities, it's largely already gone.

 

[cyberfairy]

Bloke from tescos was saying on BBC breakfast news this morn that Tesco helped local businesses by encouraging people to stay in local area
The worm does seem to be turning-I live in Bath and the farmers market is always packed and lots of independant shops. But lots of people in Bath can afford to choose independant shops and farmers markets whereas others can't and farm shops hard to get to with no car.

 

[urbanrevolt]

I'm not sure this is a political point at all but it is a fact that my shopping bill has halved since using local (in Longsight Manchester) Asian superstores and occassionally Lidl. However, I'm sure they're all pretty shit in terms of conditions for workers etc. and the only real way to change it in my humble opinion is to change the system- but certainly useful to save money (all to donate to good causes of course!)

 

[lighterthief]

Cheap prices?

When I lived in Hackney I went to Tesco very rarely, mostly because it charged quite high prices for fruit and veg etc compared to some of my local Turkish-run shops.

This is true. You should also note I mentioned increased choice and convenience. This is not a defense of Tesco on my part, as my later post made even clearer.

 

[PacificOcean]

Bloke from tescos was saying on BBC breakfast news this morn that Tesco helped local businesses by encouraging people to stay in local area

Local small businesses in Crystal Palace almost went bust when Morrsion's shut the Safeway there.

The local area including the shops lobbied to have a supermarket there to stop the Crystal Palace Triangle from dying.

Local shop keepers are now thrilled that Sainsbury's is coming as it will bring people back to the area and is somewhere free to park.

This was on the local news.

 

[Roadkill]

The worm does seem to be turning-I live in Bath and the farmers market is always packed and lots of independant shops. But lots of people in Bath can afford to choose independant shops and farmers markets whereas others can't and farm shops hard to get to with no car.

I think there is something of a backlash starting. People are more aware now that the 'cheap' prices and apparent choice that the supermarkets offer do come at a price. There's more awareness of the problems caused by eating too much processed food, which is what the supermarkets do best and where they make most of their money, and the amount of packaging they use and the pollution and congestion their distribution networks contribute to is coming in for more scrutiny. There's an increasing amount of criticism of the big players in the media, and specialist outlets such as farmers markets and organic box schemes are a growth market. So far, it's mainly a fringe movement and many people simply don't have the choice to go elsewhere because so many towns now lack anything except a supermarket. But it does offer some hope that we might not be looking at a future where a few giant chains have a complete stranglehold on the food chain...

Local small businesses in Crystal Palace almost went bust when Morrsion's shut the Safeway there.

The local area including the shops lobbied to have a supermarket there to stop the Crystal Palace Triangle from dying.

Local shop keepers are now thrilled that Sainsbury's is coming as it will bring people back to the area and is somewhere free to park.

This was on the local news.

These days there aren't that many viable clusters of independent shops left - places where you can get most things that a supermarket could provide - so there's little incentive for people to make the effort to go and shop there. A supermarket could provide a reason for people to go back to the area, which might provide some passing trade for other outlets. Does rather depend on the size of the supermarket though: a small one can complement other shops in an area whereas a large one will smother them.

The real problem is when a supermarket moves into a place that does still have a lot of small shops. That's when you see the closures. Supermarkets can help to encourage other traders, but given the sheer scale of the closures of small shops (about one fifth between 1995 and 2002) the suggestion that they always, or even usually, have this effect is not credible. You only need look at the number of smaller towns which now have nothing but a large Tesco (or ASDA or the like) to see that.

 

[Mungy]

Local small businesses in Crystal Palace almost went bust when Morrsion's shut the Safeway there.

The local area including the shops lobbied to have a supermarket there to stop the Crystal Palace Triangle from dying.

Local shop keepers are now thrilled that Sainsbury's is coming as it will bring people back to the area and is somewhere free to park.

This was on the local news.

thats just one drop in the ocean though. if the supermarkets didn't have the stranglehold they have on shopping, people would still go to the crystal palace triangle because the independents would have room to give people what the wanted and make a living.

my local market town has a tesco express and a somerfield. there is talk of opening another supermarket there. i used to work the market there, market day was on a friday - by far the busiest day. Where they propose to put the new store would limit the market further still. the days of thriving markets are gone from many parts of the country why would we want to kill them off all together?

 

[Giles]

As I said earlier, how many people actually WANT to have to go to 4 or 5 different specialist shops to do their weekly shopping?

There is a reason that supermarkets have done so well: most people like to go to them, as is clearly borne out by their ever-booming sales figures.

Some people talk as if supermarkets are uniformly imposed on a largely unwilling public. They aren't.

True, there are a lot of things they could and should do better, but anyone who thinks that most people want to have to go to several separate shops to do all their shopping is living in cloud-cuckoo land.

Giles..

 

[Hollis]

As I said earlier, how many people actually WANT to have to go to 4 or 5 different specialist shops to do their weekly shopping?

I would agree with this. I think this is largely a poncey 'middle class' I want to go to the Farmers Market type thing. You only have to look at the explosion of ready meal sales in recent years to see where the real trend is.

Some people like their specialist cheese, wine, delicatessent type shops, but frankly, it doesn't form the core of their shopping.

 

[William of Walworth]

When he took over, he exclaimed that he would do all he could to reduce the 'liberal hegemony' in the BBC as a whole, anyway, how the media portrays business permeates the whole of broadcasting including entertainment,

my point still stands, business is now seen as not contested in any way now, but seen as the natural order of things, this was not the case pre 1989, imo

Just picked up on this, FFS!

Did Randall really say that? Blatant Tory/free marketeer/pro business partisanship, and an utterly unprofessional disgrace.

If the BBC had taken on a Business Editor of even a mildly leftish or liberal bent, you can be sure the Tories, Mail, Telegraph, various righties here. etc. would have been whining VERY loudly about the disgraceful left-liberal-anti-business bias of the BBC ...

 

[William of Walworth]

I shop in Tescos, I see them as no different to any other large organisation. Why pick on Tesco the're all out of order one way or the other?

Erm, because it's a thread about Tesco's latest profits?

In any case, plenty of other large retail chains are scarcely going uncriticised in this thread. Just because people want to focus on what they see as the worst/most prominent UK offender (and have a look at some of those Tesco-specific criticisms!), doesn't mean they're giving a free ride to others who are nearly as bad.

 

[PacificOcean]

I would agree with this. I think this is largely a poncey 'middle class' I want to go to the Farmers Market type thing. You only have to look at the explosion of ready meal sales in recent years to see where the real trend is.

Some people like their specialist cheese, wine, delicatessent type shops, but frankly, it doesn't form the core of their shopping.

The fact that the Evening Standard is backing the "save our shops" campaign speaks volumes.

I am sure when they are talking about saving shops from Tesco, they aren't talking about the local Costcutters.

 

[PacificOcean]

At the end of the day, and I know this isn't a popular point of view on here, but I have a giant 24 hour Tesco Extra near me.

So, in my view, I can go day and night and buy everything from a LCD TV to Oxo cubes at my convience. Why would I swap this for trapsing round several shops that are only open when I am at work and don't stock 70k lines like Tesco?

 

[Roadkill]

No-one's suggesting that everyone has the opportunity to avoid supermarkets altogether. On the other hand, it's only fair to point out that they're not everything they claim to be and there are often places where you can get certain things both cheaper and better quality. There's no harm and some good in going somewhere else when the opportunity arises. And there's no denying that the success of Tesco and the like has come at a high price...

A few years ago, I used to live just off Newland Ave in Hull, and I'd often walk through it, wondering why people made the effort to traipse around the greengrocers, butchers and so on. Then I started using them (mainly because I moved house and the direct bus to Tesco wasn't nearly as convenient) and wondered why I hadn't before. I found shopping there a much more enjoyable and sociable experience, chatting to the shopkeepers and getting to know some of the regulars, and for the stuff I was buying, it was cheaper too. From there I started reading around the issue of food and food supply. It's from there that my strong opinions on the subject come. Tbh, I expected London to be even better for 'proper' shopping, but I've been disappointed. The street markets are good though, and long may they continue.

 

[FruitandNut]

Oops.

 

[FruitandNut]

Give the punter what they want is a pretty fireproof way to 'success'.

Times have changed, and shops and shopping by and large express this change - 'Through all the changing scenes of life' - (hymn number 30 in 'Ancient and Modern' if I recall correctly).

 

[Spandex]

At the end of the day, and I know this isn't a popular point of view on here, but I have a giant 24 hour Tesco Extra near me.

So, in my view, I can go day and night and buy everything from a LCD TV to Oxo cubes at my convience. Why would I swap this for trapsing round several shops that are only open when I am at work and don't stock 70k lines like Tesco?

My objection to supermarkets like Tesco ,Walmart (ASDA), etc isn't against supermarkets in general. They're are convienent - I'd be lost without them - and that's why they are so sucessful.

The problem is the power that they now have, and aren't afraid to use to get what they want.

Local council planning departments are pretty powerless when a Tesco or an ASDA decide they want a new store in the area. If they object, for example because they are worried about the impact on smaller businesses in the area, they know they will have a very expensive fight on their hands. Supermarkets are so rich they can just hire an army of lawers and throw appeal after appeal at councils who, with limited resourses (remember this is your council tax they will be spending), know it will cost a fortune to fight a battle they may not win. Most councils are afraid to even start opposing a new supermarket. The supermarkets companies own large areas of land all over the country ready for when they think they can get away with building a new one.

The suppliers are pretty much at the mercy of supermarkets. With such dominance over what people buy even relatively large brands will lose a fortune if Tescos decides not stock their products and small suppliers don't stand a chance of surviving if their products are dropped. And this does happen - supermarkets will often create their own ranges ('value' for the less well off and 'taste the difference' for the more affluent) and replace all but a few well known brands. When supermarkets decide to do a special offer it is often the suppliers that will have to pick the cost of the reductions up - if they refuse, they risk having their products dropped altogether.

In the last decade or so supermarkets have been using their power and money to move into more and more areas: petrol, banking, insurance, music & DVDs, electrical goods, pharmacies. This hits the profits of businesses well outside the food retail area. And supermarkets won't stop there - there is talk of GP surgeries being run in supermarkets and voting booths being set up there. The nightmare scenario (in my eyes) - which is not inconcievable in smaller towns - is a few supermarkets being the only providers of non-public services in the area. And with more and more privatisation that could be most things.

Do you really think that situation is healthy for society?

 

[William of Walworth]

The fact that the Evening Standard is backing the "save our shops" campaign speaks volumes.

I am sure when they are talking about saving shops from Tesco, they aren't talking about the local Costcutters.

I agree with what you say about the ES, they ONLY seem to focus on the posh/upmarket independent shops being threatened by supermarkets, although to be fair they as much focus on the profitereering of landlords and property companies raising the rents to a ridiculous degree, as on supermarkets.

I disagree with you that the ES's partly dodgy motives discredit any criticism of Tescos expansionism or that the ES in any way discredit opinions favouring diversity, wider choice and independence in retailing.

Read the excellent post above by Spandex. I doubt you'd get the ES printing a fraction of it.

I'd be interested to read your reply to him because it very much looks like you're indifferent to monopoly domination by mega-powerful corporates.

 

[Roadkill]

Good post Spandex.

 

[Hollis]

In the last decade or so supermarkets have been using their power and money to move into more and more areas: petrol, banking, insurance, music & DVDs, electrical goods, pharmacies.

And strangely I find it easier to get hold of the books and DVDs I want than ever before. Err banking?? Dear oh dear, poor natwest and HSBC

 

[Roadkill]

No-one thinks that HMV and Virgin are the be all and end all of record shopping, or that Waterstones is the only bookshop you'll ever need. So why should Tesco and ASDA be the only, or even most desirable, places to buy food?

 

[Spandex]

And strangely I find it easier to get hold of the books and DVDs I want than ever before.

Yeah - but the range of books, films and music supermarkets hold are the top ten best seller types - those where book and music shops make their profits to enable them to stock a wider range. These shops are already under pressure from internet sales. Would you be happy to see book and record shops bacome rarer or dissapear from the high street? That 'd make me

 

[nino_savatte]

Yeah - but the range of books, films and music supermarkets hold are the top ten best seller types - those where book and music shops make their profits to enable them to stock a wider range. These shops are already under pressure from internet sales. Would you be happy to see book and record shops bacome rarer or dissapear from the high street? That 'd make me

Aye, if I wanted to buy a book or CD, the last place I'd look would be a supermarket. They simply don't have the range of choice. They're great if you're a fan of Robert Ludlum or Jilly Cooper and like to listen to the Kaiser Chiefs but if you're tastes fall outside of Tesco's selection, then you're knackered.

 

[Idaho]

I find it bizzare that Hollis and PO are both so in favour of these supermarkets. No-one is arguing against the convenience of buying all your food in the same place - they are arguing that the supermarkets have become immensely powerful and wealthy at the cost of many valuable things in our economy and society. Once again it seems to be the cry of give me convienience or give me death.

I met the fellow who runs the Tesco clubcard the other day. Tescos are installing chips in your trolley to read where you go in the shop and how long you spend in each area. He ummed and arred when I asked him if that contravened data protection law

I am going to send him a book about the rising power of the supermarkets.

 

[Roadkill]

I am going to send him a book about the rising power of the supermarkets.

Is that Joanna Blythman's book? If so, it's very good.