Tesco rakes in £1.1bn in six months

[kyser_soze]

One problem, however, is that I'm not sure how this would strengthen the position of independents vis-a-vis the supermarkets, which IMO is important. I just don't think it's healthy that so few companies control such a alrge proportion of the food market.

I don't really either, but then you have to start looking at the structure of the UK Cash&Carry and the supply chain to independent retailers, which is dominated by the likes of Booker and Nisa Today etc.

Giving your local independent retailer/butcher etc some breathing space would be relatively simple if LAs got behind local retailers instead of being blinded by presentations and getting their driveways fixed (I'm under NO illusions as to how business gets done at the level of LAs) by the Mults.

However, all that would be for nought if all that happens is that your independent butcher/fishmonger etc are still making use of the same kinds of supply chain, and this is what I think the govt should be concentrating on since it's the modern, globalised sourcing, just in time supply chains that are the key business 'weapon' in this market.

You'd also have to go down the far harder route of explaining to people that they will experience out of stocks, because that WILL become a reality.

 

[Andy the Don]

And are you talking about Tesco or it's customers WRT that green consumer rating? And that 20% would represent approximately 10 million shoppers! Plus, I reckon it would be higher - all the polls and surveys carried out show that consumers across the board see the value in local sourcing etc so I reckon that having a label that clearly shows the miles, the environmental footprint and how much that adds to the cost would work.

Polls mean nothing when compared with the cost of produce. If you had a poll which asked the following "would you be prepared to pay an extra 10-20% for locally sourced food & food that has a small environmental footprint?" I do not think that the majority of consumers (especially those on low incomes) would say yes.

 

[lighterthief]

Polls mean nothing when compared with the cost of produce. If you had a poll which asked the following "would you be prepared to pay an extra 10-20% for locally sourced food & food that has a small environmental footprint?" I do not think that the majority of consumers (especially those on low incomes) would say yes.

Or more likely they will say 'yes' (because it sounds better) but still shop at Tesco anyway.

 

[kyser_soze]

Polls mean nothing when compared with the cost of produce. If you had a poll which asked the following "would you be prepared to pay an extra 10-20% for locally sourced food & food that has a small environmental footprint?" I do not think that the majority of consumers (especially those on low incomes) would say yes.

Ummm...the locally sourced food wouldn't carry the extra tax would it? DOH! The whole point is to make local food cheaper then food that's been flown halfway round the planet...jesus...I know it's Tuesday but seriously...

 

[Roadkill]

If people want to shop at Tesco (and judging by the profits, they do), why should the Government intervene to artificially prop up independant shops?

The regulatory regime at the moment favours the large suppliers. This is about levelling the playing field, not 'propping up' anyone.

And why do people feel sorry for suppliers? They are multi-million pound businesses too. Farmers (on the scale that someone like Tesco uses) aren't exactly tin pot operations either and with their EU subsidies, its a bit difficult to feel sorry for them.

Not all of them. I've not a great deal of time for major processors like Prince's (to take but one example off te top of my head), but then there are a whole host of smaller operations in the same field who I've a lot more time for. The supermarkets' buying from a few giant suppliers is in turn leading to over-concentration in sectors further up the supply chain.

As for exploting their workers, I noticed in today's local rag that a independant bakers were looking for someone on £5.05 an hour, far less than Tesco (or Aldi who pay particularly well) - independants are just capitalism on a smaller scale.

An argument worthy of an anarkid, and which sits rather uneasily with the laissez-faire position you set out in the first paragraph of your post. You haven't thought this through, have you? Nor have you taken on board all the arguments put to you every single time this subject comes up.

I have far more choice and convience in my local 24 hour Tesco Extra, than a high street of small shops could ever hope to offer (With my shoppping habits anyway - I don't buy fresh meat or veg).

Well maybe you should consider that a lot of people value having the choice to shop somewhere other than the big chains, and that this choice is being actively destroyed by Tesco and their like. I've no problem with supermarkets existing, but some way has to be found to reduce their dominance. Besides, whatever the choice of processed foods (I rarely buy them), there's not a lot of doubt that the range of fresh produce is actually being narrowed by the buying policies of the major chains.

The town my dad lives in used to havea thriving high street and a small Somerfield. Then tescos moved in: now there are no retailers in the town except tesco, the somerfield and one crappy Happy Shopper corner shop on the edge of town. There was another one on the main housing estate. Now Tescos own that too. You can't seriously be suggesting that that's a healthy or desirable state of affairs...

 

[lighterthief]

It always puzzles me that New Zealand lamb is usually cheaper than British lamb in supermarkets. How does that work?

 

[Roadkill]

I don't really either, but then you have to start looking at the structure of the UK Cash&Carry and the supply chain to independent retailers, which is dominated by the likes of Booker and Nisa Today etc.

Giving your local independent retailer/butcher etc some breathing space would be relatively simple if LAs got behind local retailers instead of being blinded by presentations and getting their driveways fixed (I'm under NO illusions as to how business gets done at the level of LAs) by the Mults.

However, all that would be for nought if all that happens is that your independent butcher/fishmonger etc are still making use of the same kinds of supply chain, and this is what I think the govt should be concentrating on since it's the modern, globalised sourcing, just in time supply chains that are the key business 'weapon' in this market.

You'd also have to go down the far harder route of explaining to people that they will experience out of stocks, because that WILL become a reality.

All of this is very true.

The cash and carries - by and large - are supplying the processed stuff. What interests me more is protecting the independent specialist shop - the butcher, the greengrocer - most of whose produce comes either from local slaughterhouses, markets and wholesalers. The problem atm is that the number of specialist shops is dropping, perhaps to a point where these wholesalers won't have custom enough to survive.

In France, they have subsidised local abbatoirs, and a lot more support for regional vegetable markets and the like than we do here. I think there's much to be learned from that strategy, and obviously taxing food miles would help to support regional distributers.

 

[kyser_soze]

In France, they have subsidised local abbatoirs, and a lot more support for regional vegetable markets and the like than we do here. I think there's much to be learned from that strategy, and obviously taxing food miles would help to support regional distributers.

There is NOTHING to be said for agricultural price supports of any kind RK - this is all covered under the CAP, and such protectionism doesn't help anyone, least of all developing world farmers!

 

[exosculate]

I shop in Tescos, I see them as no different to any other large organisation. Why pick on Tesco the're all out of order one way or the other?

 

[Roadkill]

I shop in Tescos, I see them as no different to any other large organisation. Why pick on Tesco the're all out of order one way or the other?

Tesco, Wal-mart/ASDA, Somerfield, Morrisons - they're all as bad as one another: anything that would clip their wings and at least give the independent sector a fighting chance can't be bad.

 

[Roadkill]

There is NOTHING to be said for agricultural price supports of any kind RK - this is all covered under the CAP, and such protectionism doesn't help anyone, least of all developing world farmers!

I think what the french have done - aside from subsiding the abbatoirs - is to protect, by one means and another, the shops that use the regional wholesalers, so it doesn't really amount to price supports.

As for third world farmers, well, Ethiopia carried on exporting cash crops throughout the 1984-5 famine. Turning large parts of their farming sectors over to production for export hasn't done them much good either, especially in terms of developing processing and distribution industries of their own. I don't agree with shutting them out of European markets (obviously), but taxing food miles would up to a point have this effect.

 

[Hollis]

I shop in Tescos, I see them as no different to any other large organisation. Why pick on Tesco the're all out of order one way or the other?

I suppose that the difference with Tesco, is that per some criteria they're very successful at what they do - i.e. they're obviously shit hot at responding to what the consumer wants, and have good business models in place.

For example the movment towards organic readymeals and other products has been noticable in the last few years.. Ditto their championing of cheap pay-as-you go phones forcing competitors to respond in kind.

 

[Hollis]

Tesco, Wal-mart/ASDA, Somerfield, Morrisons - they're all as bad as one another: anything that would clip their wings and at least give the independent sector a fighting chance can't be bad.

Of course, a major impact on independents has also been business rates and rents. The hike in business rates has made it very difficult - as a retailer you're at the end of the food chain. Even giants like Tesco operate on very low margins.. get it wrong and you're stuffed.

 

[trashpony]

I shop in Tescos, I see them as no different to any other large organisation. Why pick on Tesco the're all out of order one way or the other?

Because by shopping at Tesco, you're shopping at the supermarket with one of the worst ethical scores among all of them and you're directly lining Dame Shirley Porter's pockets.

Oh and http://www.boycotttesco.com/

 

[Roadkill]

Another useful link:

Corporate Watch's What's Wrong With Supermarkets?

Well worth a read IMO.

 

[TAE]

I'm not interested in what they are making, I'm more concerned about how they are fucking their suplliers over.

Indeed.

 

[nino_savatte]

They should never have been allowed to expand into other areas. There's virtually no business to consumer market they're not involved in. People think this is a 'good thing' because it increases choice in the short term and makes the market more competitive. It isn't.

Quite right and I would suggest that the Competition Commission investigate this but what a useless shower they are!

 

[Spandex]

Quite right and I would suggest that the Competition Commission investigate this but what a useless shower they are!

iirc, the Competition Commission did investigate this but, being a useless shower, agreed with the supermarkets that each area of business - supermarkets, cornershops, banking, etc - was seperate, so there was no need for concern I think there are calls for another investigation at the moment, though Tesco, etc aren't too happy about it. And what they want they usually get.

It's interesting to note that Milton Freidman, the free market type who influenced Thatherism and is pretty much the granddaddy of neo-liberalism, saw monopolies as one area where the state should intervene in business, as they go against neo-liberals beloved competition. All that seems to have been forgotten about by current lovers of free-marketism.

 

[nino_savatte]

iirc, the Competition Commission did investigate this but, being a useless shower, agreed with the supermarkets that each area of business - supermarkets, cornershops, banking, etc - was seperate, so there was no need for concern I think there are calls for another investigation at the moment, though Tesco, etc aren't too happy about it. And what they want they usually get.

It's interesting to note that Milton Freidman, the free market type who influenced Thatherism and is pretty much the granddaddy of neo-liberalism, saw monopolies as one area where the state should intervene in business, as they go against neo-liberals beloved competition. All that seems to have been forgotten about by current lovers of free-marketism.

Ta for that. iirc, the Comp Commission is run by people from the business sector, which makes them a little like the Press Complaints Commission, which is run by the press; both are comparable to chocolate fireguards in terms of usefulness.

 

[Hollis]

See - Tesco now moving towards local sourcing:

Local Sourcing.

• In September, we held a road show for small suppliers in Padstow,
Cornwall and we intend to host similar events in every region of the UK over
the coming year. In this way, we hope to make it easier for small local
suppliers to gain access to Tesco, and will work closely with them to
develop their business and increase production.

• We are opening six new regional buying offices in England to increase
local sourcing which we hope will result in hundreds of new local lines
being stocked in England. The regional teams will have buying and marketing
managers as well as technical and merchandising support and will be based
within the region they are looking after.

Look forward to those local lines!!!

 

[Roadkill]

Propaganda nonsense, especially the second paragraph.

In the first place, even where supermarkets are sourcing from suppliers nearby, produce is often trucked to a central distribution depot and then back out to stores. Managers have cirtually no freedom to source product lines independent of the main supply chain.

In the second, a few token local products do not begin to compensate for the massive damage done to farmers, producers, wholesalers and other organisations which supply retailers other than the supermarkets. It's all very well tesco buying a bit more stuff locally, which they will then doubtless sell at a high mark-up, but that doesn't solve the central problem, which is that real choice is being systematically squeezed out of food supply and that the food chain is increasingly dominated by a handful of giant retailers abusing their position for all they're worth.

 

[rich!]

Many of the much-touted special offers and ultra-low prices on Known Value Items (KVIs) which give the illusion of cheapness are loss-leaders.

The trick is only to buy those.

(I like to keep track of things like the price of Sacla pesto - I find this a much better indication of the rip-off level of the supermarket)

 

[Roadkill]

The trick is only to buy those.

They've been known to kick people out for doing that...

But yes, keeping track of the prices of less common items - and brands that various different retailers stock - is IME a good way of guaging how 'cheap' the supermarkets actually are. I've not looked at Pesto, but a tin of chick peas is 25p in the little shops in Greenwich, but 45 in Somerfield. You pay about £1 for spices (branded, of course) in supermarkets, but the little shop in Hull I frequented did them for 40p etc etc.

 

[Hollis]

They've been known to kick people out for doing that...

But yes, keeping track of the prices of less common items - and brands that various different retailers stock - is IME a good way of guaging how 'cheap' the supermarkets actually are. I've not looked at Pesto, but a tin of chick peas is 25p in the little shops in Greenwich, but 45 in Somerfield. You pay about £1 for spices (branded, of course) in supermarkets, but the little shop in Hull I frequented did them for 40p etc etc.

Well of course it makes sense to pay a small 'premium' for the convenience of having all your shopping in one stall.

Please also check out the interim statement and you'll see Tesco's have actually had price 'deflation' in the past 6 months.

 

[Roadkill]

Well of course it makes sense to pay a small 'premium' for the convenience of having all your shopping in one stall.

I used to have all my shopping in one street close to home, which was just as convenient and with a few exceptions as cheap as any supermarket. If Tescos had had their way, that street would be no more since they tried to buy up the site of a closed school. Thankfully, Hull City Council refused them planning permission.

So now the good citizens of that part of the city can continue to enjoy a diverse range of friendly, unpretentious, high quality and cheap shops whilst Tesco sit and fulminate in their drab shed three miles away.

See? If only more local authorities had the good sense to tell the supermarkets to fuck off then we wouldn't be in the mess we're in.

 

[Hollis]

See? If only more local authorities had the good sense to tell the supermarkets to fuck off then we wouldn't be in the mess we're in.

Frankly, alot of the Tesco Express stores used to be Cullens or Europa.. Now what a bag of shite those stalls were!!!

 

[Roadkill]

As was Jacksons before Sainsbury's bought it up.

It's still shite, but in different packaging.

 

[kyser_soze]

Thing is RK, while I agree with your sentiment, you and I and most of this board are not representative of the majority of shoppers (i.e HWKs) for whom being able to drive to a supermarket, load up with a fortnight or month's shopping is a total boon.

While your street of unpretentious shops might be great for you, is it going to be as convenient and useful for an HWK who, most likely, is also working? I doubt it. And you're presenting independent stores as some kind of utopian vision - I remember what indies used to be like round my way, and compared to them Tesco and the other mults represented good, in code food, convenience and choice (which they still do - the average Tesco has over 70K product lines available), and unless you have the time they still represent the best overall deal.

 

[Roadkill]

The worst of it is that you're right up to a point. But only up to a point.

I'm not representing small shops as a utpoian vision - what I'm after is achieving a balance between supermarkets and others that, whilst far from perfect, if going to be better than what obtains now.

I reject the idea that the only people who avoid supermarkets are those with plenty of time and money. I had far less of both before coming to London than I now do, and managed to do 80-90% of my shopping outside supermarkets. It just depends on having access to good-quality specialist retailers, which will be impossible to achieve unless something is done to clip the wings of the big players.

If you're just into buying processed foods then of course supermarkets will always be cheaper - and frankly perhaps that's no bad thing. It's what they do best. It's the specialist shops that concern me more. As a kid I remember my parents using the supermarket for stocking up on tinned/processed stuff and bulk goods, and then going to various other shops for the rest. I went back to the town a couple of years ago: there were no food shops in the centre except one giant Tesco. That's what I object to - not the existence of supermarkets, but the way they've destroyed everything else.

 

[Hollis]

It's the specialist shops that concern me more.

And as I've said, a major problem with specialist shops these days is rent and rates. With business rates incresing you simply find it very difficult to sell a specialist niche range of goods.

I suppose all these Farmer's Markets present a way forward.