'Terroring' - my heart goes out to teachers

[8ball]

. . I do note that yours is the only one I can think of where you are routinely left on your own with a hostile audience and told to sort it out.

It certainly seems to be the only job where you are routinely left on your own with a hostile audience and told to sort it out without being able to openly ridicule, threaten or smash the little cunts in the face.

 

[weltweit]

An experienced teacher I know went though hell with one particular class, the school management did not help with discipline and that class remained a nightmare, it would not surprise me if they had not organised it, anyhow the person I know subsequently left the school in disgust so now I guess some other poor sod has to deal with them.

Personally I would not be a teacher in such a school, all praise to those that are.

 

[weltweit]

It certainly seems to be the only job where you are routinely left on your own with a hostile audience and told to sort it out without being able to openly ridicule, threaten or smash the little cunts in the face.

Showing my age now but when I was at school there was corporal punishment .. and .. in many cases it did work .. I certainly can't recall it doing me any lasting harm.

 

[8ball]

I certainly can't recall it doing me any lasting harm.

Of course not, no one can ever recall the rage, hatred and sense of violation. It just gets buried.

And festers . .

 

[Poot]

Bloody hell, hats off to teachers.

I loved the comments on the link that said something like "I just remind them that I get paid whether they learn anything or not. Then I get my novel out and start reading. Then they all start demanding to be taught. They're a bit thick, actually"

 

[phildwyer]

Bloody hell, hats off to teachers.

I loved the comments on the link that said something like "I just remind them that I get paid whether they learn anything or not. Then I get my novel out and start reading. Then they all start demanding to be taught. They're a bit thick, actually"

The thing is though, we are talking about *children.* That is to say, people who have not attained the age of responsibility. Nothing is their fault. If the children don't want to learn, then the natural desire all have children have to learn has somehow been stifled in them. Either by incompetant teachers or an inappropriate curriculum. Certainly my (comprehensive) school was packed with teachers who had not a trace of intelligence or charisma, and it was frankly an insult to the children to put them in front of a class. I had no sympathy for them at all when the kids got bored or disruptive. The children are not, and can never be, the problem.

 

[Cloo]

Isn't it part of the teacher's responsibility to keep the kids interested so they don't feel like terroring?

I dunno, I don't like the 'lessons are boring so kids misbehave' thing, plus, in this instance the lesson hasn't started yet; they've had no time to get bored.

My conjecture is that some kids choose to be bored. They've grown up from year dot with a telly in their bedroom, they absorb the outside world through their own filter, think they know all they need to know, they assume everything in school is boring and irrelevant because only what they know matters.

 

[phildwyer]

I dunno, I don't like the 'lessons are boring so kids misbehave' thing, plus, in this instance the lesson hasn't started yet; they've had no time to get bored.

My conjecture is that some kids choose to be bored. They've grown up from year dot with a telly in their bedroom, they absorb the outside world through their own filter, think they know all they need to know, they assume everything in school is boring and irrelevant because only what they know matters.

Maybe. But surely the teacher's job is to convince them otherwise? To inspire them with a thirst for knowledge? I'm not saying its an *easy* job, far from it, but that's what teaching is all about. Anyone can teach a kid who's already eager to learn.

 

[Poot]

The thing is though, we are talking about *children.* That is to say, people who have not attained the age of responsibility. Nothing is their fault. If the children don't want to learn, then the natural desire all have children have to learn has somehow been stifled in them. Either by incompetant teachers or an inappropriate curriculum. Certainly my (comprehensive) school was packed with teachers who had not a trace of intelligence or charisma, and it was frankly an insult to the children to put them in front of a class. I had no sympathy for them at all when the kids got bored or disruptive. The children are not, and can never be, the problem.

These kids are probably 11 to 16. How you can possibly say that nothing is their fault is beyond me. You don't suddenly gain a sense of responsibility at the age of 18.

 

[phildwyer]

These kids are probably 11 to 16. How you can possibly say that nothing is their fault is beyond me. You don't suddenly gain a sense of responsibility at the age of 18.

I think you'll find that my position is recognized by law. A 15 year-old is not legally responsible to the same degree as an 18 year-old. That's why they're in school rather than free to do what they want. No point blaming them for anything.

 

[Poot]

I think you'll find that my position is recognized by law. A 15 year-old is not legally responsible to the same degree as an 18 year-old. That's why they're in school rather than free to do what they want. No point blaming them for anything.

Yes of course. A teenager has no sense of right and wrong at all. Until they turn 18 and magically gain a whole new sense of awareness. Bless the little darlings, they're just having a laugh, so that's ok then, isn't it.

By the way, I've not heard anyone use "I think you'll find" in ages. It's a sure-fire way to win friends.

 

[Poot]

Maybe. But surely the teacher's job is to convince them otherwise? To inspire them with a thirst for knowledge? I'm not saying its an *easy* job, far from it, but that's what teaching is all about. Anyone can teach a kid who's already eager to learn.

Are you a teacher? Have you put this into practice?

 

[phildwyer]

Are you a teacher? Have you put this into practice?

I have been, and yes I have.

 

[phildwyer]

Yes of course. A teenager has no sense of right and wrong at all. Until they turn 18 and magically gain a whole new sense of awareness. Bless the little darlings, they're just having a laugh, so that's ok then, isn't it.

By the way, I've not heard anyone use "I think you'll find" in ages. It's a sure-fire way to win friends.

I think you'll find its quite a common expression. Look, there is a reason why these people are not free to wander the streets, get a job, travel the world and so forth. There is a reason why they *have to* be in school. The reason is that they are not competent to make independent decisions. They are not *adults.* Therefore it is foolish to blame them for misbehaving. Children naturally want to learn, and if this desire is extinguished in them, then someone other than the children is to blame. Usually the teachers in my experience.

 

[scifisam]

I think you'll find that my position is recognized by law. A 15 year-old is not legally responsible to the same degree as an 18 year-old. That's why they're in school rather than free to do what they want. No point blaming them for anything.

No, they're not, but they can be arrested and sent to a YOI for serious offences. They can get pregnant and keep custody of the baby. They can work part-time. They're responsible in all sorts of ways.

It's pretty insulting to teenagers to say that they're not responsible for any of their own actions. Hell, even my 8-year-old is responsible for herself, though to a lesser extent.

It is the teacher's responsibility to make the lessons really interesting, and that does avert a lot of poor behaviour, but when you're talking about human beings with complicated lives who are going through all sorts of changes (the kids, that is), then there are too many other factors in play. Teachers are not Gods.

 

[Cloo]

Maybe. But surely the teacher's job is to convince them otherwise? To inspire them with a thirst for knowledge? I'm not saying its an *easy* job, far from it, but that's what teaching is all about. Anyone can teach a kid who's already eager to learn.

Indeed, anyone can. But if it doesn't start at home, I suspect it's an uphill struggle. Faced with a classfull of kids many of whom may have grown up being told 'School is shit, yeah it's boring and the teachers are always unfair and telling you off', at worst, or, in the very least, with minimal interest in their education at all, doesn't help.

 

[scifisam]

I have been, and yes I have.

What kind of teacher, where and for how long?

 

[chilango]

Maybe. But surely the teacher's job is to convince them otherwise? To inspire them with a thirst for knowledge? I'm not saying its an *easy* job, far from it, but that's what teaching is all about. Anyone can teach a kid who's already eager to learn.

Agree with this.

But sadly the education system doesn`t.

Hence the problems....

 

[jbob]

The current curriculum hardly aids teachers to make education interesting for students.

 

[phildwyer]

The current curriculum hardly aids teachers to make education interesting for students.

I suspect that is the main problem, yes. But there really are a lot of crap teachers around as well. I know, I was taught by them.

 

[spanglechick]

I suspect that is the main problem, yes. But there really are a lot of crap teachers around as well. I know, I was taught by them.

what kind of school did you teach at, phil? where/how long/how long ago?

 

[scifisam]

what kind of school did you teach at, phil? where/how long/how long ago?

Snap

 

[phildwyer]

I teach at a university now. Before that I taught special needs kids in New York City. Part time, for four years.

 

[scifisam]

I teach at a university now. Before that I taught special needs kids in New York City. Part time, for four years.

Full classes?

 

[phildwyer]

Full classes?

What counts as "full?" And I'm not sure I see the relevence of this, unless you're planning to argue that no-one has the right to comment on teaching in a UK Comp unless they've done so?

 

[scifisam]

What counts as "full?" And I'm not sure I see the relevence of this, unless you're planning to argue that no-one has the right to comment on teaching in a UK Comp unless they've done so?

No, of course I wouldn't argue that. However, if you're saying 'anyone can do it,' and backing that up with your own experience, then it does matter. If you were, in fact, not a teacher of full classes, but an assistant or a special needs teacher withdrawing individuals or small numbers of kids, then it's really not the same thing at all.

I've taught in many different types of education - practically every type there is - and teaching at a secondary comp is more different to them than I ever realised. (I knew it would be different, but not this much).

 

[weltweit]

Of course not, no one can ever recall the rage, hatred and sense of violation. It just gets buried.

And festers . .

Personally when it got as far as corporal punishment back when I was in school, I think we knew ourselves that we deserved it it was very rare and only when significant boundaries had been passed .. but we did pass them once or thrice and no I cannot recall lasting damage .. or any damage at all really.

Just being honest, and not intending to derail the thread.

 

[phildwyer]

No, of course I wouldn't argue that. However, if you're saying 'anyone can do it,' and backing that up with your own experience, then it does matter.

But I didn't say anyone can do it, nor did I back it up with my own experience. On the contrary, this is what I said:

Maybe. But surely the teacher's job is to convince them otherwise? To inspire them with a thirst for knowledge? I'm not saying its an *easy* job, far from it, but that's what teaching is all about. Anyone can teach a kid who's already eager to learn.

So I think it is the teacher's job to inspire children with a desire to learn, and that when the kids have no such desire, the teacher has failed at their job. I think it is a very difficult job indeed though.

 

[spanglechick]

So I think it is the teacher's job to inspire children with a desire to learn, and that when the kids have no such desire, the teacher has failed at their job. I think it is a very difficult job indeed though.

it isn't any more though.

a teacher's job, now, is to train the kids how to answer the exam paper more efficiently, so that they can deliver the mythical 3% rise in results, year-on-year. There isn't time to inspire the kids anymore.

 

[phildwyer]

it isn't any more though.

a teacher's job, now, is to train the kids how to answer the exam paper more efficiently, so that they can deliver the mythical 3% rise in results, year-on-year. There isn't time to inspire the kids anymore.

Gotcha. That must indeed be frustrating, for teacher and pupil alike.