Temporary contract - legal position

Discussion in 'education & employment' started by S☼I, Jun 29, 2018.

  1. S☼I

    S☼I motorneon cycleness

    Started working as teaching assistant in Dec, temp contract to run til end of academic year mid July. Was told couple of weeks ago wouldn't be renewing contract as finances too tight and that was sole reason. Couple of others who started when I did HAVE had theirs renewed.

    Today in staff briefing (all staff present) Head announced three support staff positions being advertised so if "anyone wants to apply or knows anyone who's looking for work..." etc. More than a few people caught my eye and had the decency to look horrified.

    One of the three jobs advertised later this morning is same as my job. I'm fucking fuming. Advice welcome. No I'm not in a union because I'm a fucking idiot.
  2. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    Ask them calmly and politely how the situation has arisen and whether they would welcome your application for one of the roles.

    Then think about next steps once you have answered those questions.
  3. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    Sorry to hear this.

    I think unfortunately they are within their rights* to let the contract run its course and then employ someone different on a new contract for the same role. I guess they have not been honest with you because they feel awkward.

    If you want to carry on working there then you need to work out why they didn't renew your contract and try to persuade them to take you on again. Is there anyone in senior management you could have that conversation with?

    (*usual disclaimer that I am not an employment lawyer)
    S☼I likes this.
  4. oryx

    oryx Sitting on the bock of the day

    ACAS website might be worth a look.

    I think if you had been in a permanent job this would be illegal but unfortunately as it's a temporary job it's just unethical.

    Good luck with it, sounds like typical shitty employer sharp practice.
    S☼I likes this.
  5. chilango

    chilango Neither Westminster nor Brussels....

    That sucks.

    Were you told "wouldn't be renewing contract as finances too tight and that was sole reason." in writing? Not that that might be enough to make any difference.

    Any ideas as to why might want someone different to you in?
    S☼I likes this.
  6. S☼I

    S☼I motorneon cycleness

    No. When I was told about being let go they said I've been fantastic, have fitted in well and would be providing a great reference and as much support as I needed for my job hunting while I was still employed by them. But clearly SOMETHING is not right there because they'd have just offered me another year like the other two.

    So now they can neither claim it's a purely fiscal decision nor that they have to interview for each new post out of courtesy or whatever.

    If there's some quality they need which I don't possess, or something I haven't done they wish I had, they should be up front and tell me so I can work on it in future. I can accept criticism but being bullshitted is not so easy to take.
  7. equationgirl

    equationgirl Respect my existence or expect my resistance

    Unfortunately, I think you will need to have a conversation with someone in management about the reasons behind these new roles suddenly existing.
  8. S☼I

    S☼I motorneon cycleness

    Yes. I was going to this afternoon but both head and exec head were out. Likely a good thing to have to wait until Monday. Such a sour taste.
  9. equationgirl

    equationgirl Respect my existence or expect my resistance

    Oh definitely, and it takes a great deal of self-control not to shout 'you fucking twats, you have got to be fucking shitting me' when you first hear about stuff like this.

    Take this evening to wrap your head around it, then start writing a list of questions that you would like answers to.
  10. Lupa

    Lupa It's all about the butter

    If it's anything like the way things here have gone ... people are being interviewed for the jobs they've been doing for up to 3 years every year.
    I've seen people literally sweating turf dust cos they have to go to interview for the job they've been doing...
    Equally I've seen how a principal can use this system to move someone out and employ someone else.

    It's shit.

    But my.advice for what it's worth would be to apply for the jobs and go to interview knowing that you've been doing a great job already.
    If you get it...all.is good.
    If not...get your union involved and find out why and ask for the interview marking schemes.

    Hope you get it...
    planetgeli likes this.
  11. chilango

    chilango Neither Westminster nor Brussels....

  12. MickiQ

    MickiQ Well-Known Member

    Apply for it, the worst they can possibly do is say no and since you're leaving anyway so you have nothing to lose and everything to gain, for all you know they might be expecting you to apply.
    It is quite possible that they were telling the truth about the finances and that the money to pay these new positions may be coming out of a different budget
  13. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    Completely this. There's nothing fair about the way education budgets are run these days (if there ever was). You have done nothing wrong. They will have their favourites, it's not your fault you aren't one of them. Last year I worked in a school where exactly what you describe happened. 15 T.As were made to reapply for 3 jobs, and they were given cursory interviews because the Head already knew who he wanted, which was nothing to do with expertise or experience. That same school has just done the dirty on a friend of mine this week. She's been working as a HLTA for 6 months, preparing classes (2-3 hours work each evening) and taking them, she's a deaf child specialist (signing etc). They only paid her level 3, no extra HLTA money. Then this week they interviewed for the same position, as they now have the budget to pay HLTA wages. Guess what. Her face doesn't fit and she didn't get the job. This is education today.

    Good luck.
    Chilli.s and S☼I like this.
  14. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Is the new role being advertised the same as your role and at the same pay?

    If so I would definitely apply for it (you have nothing to lose) and point out during the application process that you're already doing the job (or near enough) and have an excellent record, not a bad word said against you etc.

    If you don't get it they will have some explaining to do.

    Make sure you keep all the emails, etc and write down everything everyone says from now on with a date and time and so on.
  15. S☼I

    S☼I motorneon cycleness

    Right now I'm feeling like "Fuck 'em - they clearly don't want me" but we'll see if that changes
  16. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    I think that's understandable but you need a job - and/or there's no need to make things easy for them on the way out...
    S☼I likes this.
  17. chilango

    chilango Neither Westminster nor Brussels....

    Get a job description and person spec for the job. Apply with concrete examples from their own fucking setting of how you've met them.

    Make it really hard for them to justify not giving you the job. Request feedback on your application with reference to the above.

    And if it turns out they are shafting you it's good pray for getting a solid application in for somewhere else.
    S☼I likes this.
  18. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat meh


    think you need to talk to them and ask them just wtf the problem is. although sounds like you might just get bullshitted.

    did you and the two who got contracts renewed have to go through any sort of application process? or any transparent form of process for selection for redundancy / non renewal?

    are there others in the same position as you?

    non renewal of fixed term contract can legally count as redundancy, and this does sound dubious - although if you've got less than 2 years' service in, it's going to be hard to bring an unfair dismissal claim.

    unless their action is discrimination on grounds protected under equalities law (gender, age, race, actual or perceived sexual orientation, disability) - or for raising legitimate h&s concerns (or for union membership but you've said you're not). and when i say this, i mean that you would stand a reasonable chance of convincing a tribunal.

    if you join a union now, you may be entitled to some advice, but most won't offer representation over an issue that started before you joined.

    a chat with ACAS isn't going to do you any harm
    S☼I, equationgirl and oryx like this.
  19. S☼I

    S☼I motorneon cycleness

    I didn't bother applying in the end. Closing date was today.

    However, I DID go see the Head a week ago today and explained I wasn't happy how she'd announced the jobs in front of all the staff and the fact they said the only reason I wasn't getting my contract renewed was because of money. She said as the Year 6 kid I was contracted to work with is leaving, the "position" is going too. Hilarious, seeing as my contract is to work with a Yr 2 boy which I never did, given when I arrived on my first day they told me there'd been a change of plan and would I try working in a Year 6 class. I explained also that there is no obligation to advertise new positions, you can just give the job to existing staff. But then she totally fobbed me off, saying she would get the business manager to look into it and explain stuff/address my concerns. A week later I have heard nothing, despite passing said manager in the corridor countless times.

    It's a crock of shit, and it's bloody hard at the moment. It's like I've become a ghost. A couple of staff have even stopped saying hello :rolleyes: and everything is gearing up for next year, with transition days and so on.

    Another question, if you'll allow the indulgence - when's best to tell the kids? I'm not leaving it to the last day.
  20. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Fair enough. Sorry to hear about the rest of it. Sounds like a you’re best off without them to be honest.
    S☼I likes this.
  21. spanglechick

    spanglechick High Empress of Dressing Up

    I'd tell the kids in the last week.

    In secondary I'd do it in the last fortnight, because you don't see the same kids every day.
    friendofdorothy and S☼I like this.
  22. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat meh

  23. chilango

    chilango Neither Westminster nor Brussels....

    That's shabby treatment.

    I'm in the last few days here and totally get the "ghost" thing. With the exception that any dull or unpleasant work is being shifted my way whilst am being excluded from the more rewarding stuff.

    And I've been here longer than anyone else :(

    On the plus side it removes any nagging doubts about leaving.

    As for telling kids? Dunno as rumour always seems to beat me to it! Though a little digging reveals its usually a manager letting it slip.

    Hope you find a new role in a better place.
    S☼I likes this.
  24. Chilli.s

    Chilli.s changed the little words

    It's very shabby treatment indeed.

    I have seen similar situations and have come to the conclusion that it is a feature of this line of work. A new face will do more of the unpaid overtime just to look good. An employee that is a secondary wage in a couple situation can afford to do that too. Its about management getting something for nothing.
    S☼I likes this.
  25. twentythreedom

    twentythreedom Patterdale Terrorist

    Sounds shit, catbum :(

    You'll get through this :) A new future awaits :thumbs:
    S☼I likes this.
  26. equationgirl

    equationgirl Respect my existence or expect my resistance

    Yeah, that's exceptionally poor treatment. Some people just don't know how to behave, sometimes. Yes, I get it's awkward and some might feel guilty because they haven't been made redundant, or they think they will put their foot in it.

    FFS, just tell the person you're sorry for what's happening to them.have some compassion - redundancy is shit enough, don't make it worse.
    S☼I likes this.
  27. S☼I

    S☼I motorneon cycleness

    TA interviews today. Even borrowed four kids from my class to assist. :(:mad:

    Yes I could have applied. Yes I've probably cut off my nose to spite my face. But ffs.

    Yet to find out why I wasn't just offered a job or told about the positions directly. Yet to have my line manager ask how I'm doing or what my plans are.

    Will be requesting an exit interview.
    equationgirl likes this.
  28. equationgirl

    equationgirl Respect my existence or expect my resistance

    I think you will be happier doing this type of work for another school. So applying here doesn't make any sense if you're sure they won't be fair, and I think you're right.

    I applied for a couple of roles with my ex employer. Got a fake interview for one, got a shit rejection for the other. They pretty much made it clear I wasn't 'their sort of employee'. But I found another job elsewhere and so will you.
  29. S☼I

    S☼I motorneon cycleness

    Made me laugh earlier actually, when I was filing copies of my kids' end of year reports in the main office. Loud rude TA came in without seeing me and started talking about collections for people who are leaving, while office manager was desperately trying to alert her to the fact I was behind her. "Yeah, it's only four we're doing - [Head] says we're not bothering with temporary staff...a couple have only been here two terms...why should they get anything?"

    I went outside at dinner time and ran into about a hundred people who DO value me being there.
    equationgirl and chilango like this.
  30. xsunnysuex

    xsunnysuex Life is a horizontal fall.

    Blimey. Think your better off out of there. Shocking behaviour.
    oryx, PursuedByBears and S☼I like this.

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