Teenage double murdering twat sent down

[Jonti]

Not denying the guy had issues, but the inaccurate reporting and hysteria is fascinating too.

 

[poster342002]

Not denying the guy had issues

As I say, most of the people unfortunate enough to be growing up during WW2 must have had "issues". Why wasn't there a mass outbreak of this sort of idiocy afterwards?

 

[Jonti]

Try reading about the guy's life.

It does not sound like the life my parents had (both of whom were in the Armed Forces in WW2).

 

[Jonti]

Well even the father of Ruth Okechukwu says it's not too late for him to repent.

I understand that is the Christian view, yes.

As soon as he Believes in Jesus and Repents, he will be Saved and go to Heaven.

 

[poster342002]

Try reading about the guy's life.

It does not sound like the life my parents had (both of whom were in the Armed Forces in WW2).

I'm talking more about civillian children/teenagers growing up in the midst of WW2 - especially in the worst-hit areas. The fall of Berlin to the Russians (and numerous areas to the Germans beforehand) was not a pretty sight, for example, yet there didn't seem to be a mass outbreak of this sort of shit in the years following it's aftermath.

 

[poster342002]

As soon as he Believes in Jesus and Repents, he will be Saved and go to Heaven.

Small matter of double (and pointless) murder will be written off, then?

Just as well he hadn't had gay sex or something instead - because then he'd burn in hell forever.

 

[Jonti]

Yes, that's the Christian catechism alright. You'll be pleased to know the same salvation (redemption through belief in Jesus) is available to gays.

 

[untethered]

In Christianity, repentance is necessary but not sufficient for salvation. You also need to do penance (ie. atone for your sins) and have an honest change of heart not to act similarly in future.

It's not just "say sorry and get off free".

 

[Jonti]

Well, there's many varieties of christian superstition. These folks are quite clear that repentance and belief are necessary and sufficient for salvation.

It's an interesting subject, but prolly best to start another thread, rather than derail this one.

 

[untethered]

It's an interesting subject, but prolly best to start another thread, rather than derail this one.

True. Saying sorry to God (of whatever denomination or sect) isn't going to give this chap a get out of jail free card.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Should people like him be given the opportunity to do penance for what they have done?

That's the interesting question to me.

I don't quite understand the point in threads such as these - is it just to display your self-righteous anger and thirst for revenge? If you want revenge, why not just bring back the death penalty and be done with it?

 

[untethered]

Should people like him be given the opportunity to do penance for what they have done?

Short of executing them, they clearly do have that opportunity. Even criminals that haven't been caught have that opportunity. It doesn't need to be enforced on them. In fact, it's better when it isn't.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Short of executing them, they clearly do have that opportunity. Even criminals that haven't been caught have that opportunity.

The lock em up and throw away the key brigade clearly don't agree. You don't have much opportunity to atone for your wrong-doing and help others from inside a cell.

 

[Jografer]

The lock em up and throw away the key brigade clearly don't agree. You don't have much opportunity to atone for your wrong-doing and help others from inside a cell.

But being in a cell is not simply about doing penance, it's also about protecting the rest of 'us' from 'him'. I'm sorry about his upbringing, but he is where he needs to be IMHO.

Oh, and UK has offered refuge (rightly) to thousands of people from parts of the world, many of whom have had to go through horrific experiences, but who don't commit double murders.... so let's not patronise them by excusing him...

 

[Blagsta]

Exactly. So the point is irrelevant.

Did we see huge numbers of people who'd grown up during the worst of WW2 carrying on this way afterwards as a result? No.

No, it does not make it irrelevant. It makes it a factor, just not the only factor.

 

[Blagsta]

As I say, most of the people unfortunate enough to be growing up during WW2 must have had "issues". Why wasn't there a mass outbreak of this sort of idiocy afterwards?

Because they had families, friends, community etc around them to help emotionally contain them?

 

[poster342002]

Because they had families, friends, community etc around them to help emotionally contain them?

What about the dozens upon dozens who lost that support network to the war as a result of their families, friends etc not surviving it?

 

[tbaldwin]

I think the state needs to look after kids from war-torn Africa and other places better.

A friend of mine was born in Luanda and when you hear his story about he got forced to join the army, it is surprising that he did not end up on the scrap heap like this kid.

If a kid is used to seeing people being shot and killed on a daily basis, is abused, beaten up and exploited and lives a life eekng out an existence on the street of Kinshasa, Luanda, Freetown or wherever, they are not going to fit into UK society very easily.

I think that given the lives of some people from countries like Angola,Somalia etc Its perhaps suprising their is not more violence like this.
Especially given the life chances of many Black youngsters in places are so poor.

 

[phildwyer]

I'm talking more about civillian children/teenagers growing up in the midst of WW2 - especially in the worst-hit areas. The fall of Berlin to the Russians (and numerous areas to the Germans beforehand) was not a pretty sight, for example, yet there didn't seem to be a mass outbreak of this sort of shit in the years following it's aftermath.

You what? The Russians raped just about every woman in Berlin.

 

[poster342002]

You what? The Russians raped just about every woman in Berlin.

Err - yes, that's actually what I meant (see my comment about the fall of Berlin not being a pretty sight). But that didn't then result in a whole generation of German teenagers going around committing idiotic violence for years afterwards.

 

[tbaldwin]

Err - yes, that's actually what I meant (see my comment about the fall of Berlin not being a pretty sight). But that didn't then result in a whole generation of German teenagers going around committing idiotic violence for years afterwards.

Yeah but the Germans had hope and massive investment thru the Marshall plan. Black youngsters in the UK have discrimination and less less chance of finding a decent job.

 

[poster342002]

Yeah but the Germans had hope and massive investment thru the Marshall plan. Black youngsters in the UK have discrimination and less less chance of finding a decent job.

Perhaps Britain needs it's own internal "marshall plan"?

 

[dennisr]

Perhaps Britain needs it's own internal "marshall plan"?

Blimey - don't give the government any more ideas mate - can you imagine how the ejets would 'interpret' this sort of plan - they are causing enough division and bitterness as it is

But yes - investment in communities not control

 

[tbaldwin]

Perhaps Britain needs it's own internal "marshall plan"?

I think it does. This govt has increased public spending massivelly but so much of the money intended to help disadvantaged people is siphoned off by parasites.
There are so many people busy doing nothing on decent wages,yet there are a lack of youth clubs and jobs for young people.

 

[poster342002]

Blimey - don't give the government any more ideas mate - can you imagine how the ejets would 'interpret' this sort of plan - they are causing enough division and bitterness as it is

But yes - investment in communities not control

I don't mean a divide-and-conquer carve-up scheme. More, as you say, a massive, emergency-scale investment and public works programme to gauranteee each person stable, reasonable-paying employment.

 

[poster342002]

I think it does. This govt has increased public spending massivelly but so much of the money intended to help disadvantaged people is siphoned off by parasites.

It needs to be set up in such a way that it bypasses the proffessional "pilot-fish" that hang spring up around these schemes, yes.

 

[Blagsta]

What about the dozens upon dozens who lost that support network to the war as a result of their families, friends etc not surviving it?

Seeing as their whole society had been in a war, presumably communities all came together to help. Read the history or something.

 

[dennisr]

I don't mean a divide-and-conquer carve-up scheme. More, as you say, a massive, emergency-scale investment and public works programme to gauranteee each person stable, reasonable-paying employment.

fully agree with the idea (only joking earlier )

 

[poster342002]

fully agree with the idea (only joking earlier )

Cheers!

Actually, the more I think of it, the more I think things have fallen into such a state that something along these lines is needed - fast. The UK establishment has neglected the welfare of it's people for so long that gowing parts of it could be termed "a failed state" in many ways. If we are to avoid spreading societal collapse, a radical emergency plan of action and aid to rebuild a functioning society is needed along the lines of a sort of "internal marshall plan".

 

[tbaldwin]

Cheers!

Actually, the more I think of it, the more I think things have fallen into such a state that something along these lines is needed - fast. The UK establishment has neglected the welfare of it's people for so long that gowing parts of it could be termed "a failed state" in many ways. If we are to avoid spreading societal collapse, a radical emergency plan of action and aid to rebuild a functioning society is needed along the lines of a sort of "internal marshall plan".

Your right it is a failed state. People think of countries like Italy as full of corruption but the UKs public and voluntary sector is riddled with massive corruption and despite the billions of £s they squander nothing ever seems to be said about it? A conspiracy of silence that both the Orthodox Left and Right seem happy to keep.