Teenage boy shot dead on Marcus Garvey Way, Aug 2007

[han]

Its gone from G rap being the commentary of the streets to being a manual of conduct on the streets.

Also, if kids are lacking positive male role models in their real lives, you can see why they would idolise/copy their musical heroes, men who are strong/agreesive, have money and glorify violence.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

This isn't really related, but I thought I'd say it anyway.

I was waiting for the train at Loughborough Junction last night and there was a 12yr old black kid playing rap music on his mobile next to me. The lyrics were almost entirely about the "nigga" singer "shooting niggas" for not respecting him, with the backing track peppered with gunshot sounds.

Now I'm not saying that music turns kids into killers because that would be a ridiculous claim, but it really can't help to have young kids' role models endlessly banging on and on about killing each other for trivial reasons, can it?

Mary Whitehouse couldn't have put it better

 

[editor]

Mary Whitehouse couldn't have put it better

Hey, why not try addressing the point raised instead of throwing out a clueless little quip?

 

[Orang Utan]

Hey, why not try addressing the point raised instead of throwing out a clueless little quip?

It wasn't entirely without merit

 

[editor]

The kids are bright enough not to believe or act upon rap lyrics Ed.

I didn't say that they did, but asked the question whether a culture that seems to endlessly glorify violence and guns might not be helping things.

 

[editor]

It wasn't entirely without merit

So do you think that a 'cool' culture that endlessly glorifies violence and guns has no impact whatsoever on impressionable young minds then?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I think gangsta rap can normalise violence and revenge fantasies, but it doesn't cause it.

How about video games?

 

[Orang Utan]

So do you think that a 'cool' culture that endlessly glorifies violence and guns has no impact whatsoever on impressionable young minds then?

No, but I think the reaction to it can be disproportionate

 

[editor]

No, but I think the reaction too it can be disproportionate

Could you explain why you piped up to say that comparisons with my question and Mary Whitehouse's notoriously prudish beliefs were "not entirely without merit" then please? You see, I'm failing to find anything Whitehouse-esque about my comment.

Oh, and here's an interesting article:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20020928/ai_n12641374

 

[Orang Utan]

It's only Whitehouse-esque cos it seems to blame the media for a very complex problem. That's all.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Maybe the problem is that you seem to be focusing solely on those elements of 'black' culture that glorify violence, while not mentioning the pervasive glorification of violence in all of society, in things like video games, movies, advertising etc.

 

[keicar]

Nonsense, we didn't go round getting pissed, snorting speed, swearing loudly and spitting on the streets after listening to the Sex Pistols did we?

Surely there is a difference between swearing and spitting, and even taking drugs, and killing someone

Rock'n'roll, Punk, Acid House and all the other forms of music which provoked a 'it's the end of the world as we know it' response from the Moral Majority did not advocate shooting and killing.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Hey, why not try addressing the point raised instead of throwing out a clueless little quip?

Oi, stop getting narky I wasn't having a go at you

People used to slate Mary Whitehouse for her comments, but sometimes I don't think she was too far out. I think violence on TV and violence in music CAN be influential to those young and stupid enough to be influenced by the crap they're seeing/hearing. Luckily most people aren't but unfortunately a few are.

Obviously though you can't stop people listening/watching crap just because of a minority

 

[dum dum]

I didn't say that they did, but asked the question whether a culture that seems to endlessly glorify violence and guns might not be helping things.

The answer is still the same,kids are bright enough to know the whats what.

 

[ramjamclub]

The answer is still the same,kids are bright enough to know the whats what.

Dumb, dumb, dumb. Not when you see the latest spate of "kids killings."
They encourage each other to be the big man and then it goes horribly wrong.

 

[editor]

The answer is still the same,kids are bright enough to know the whats what.

So you think that the constant glorification of guns and violence by some artists has no effect whatsoever on the attitudes of any child who listens to it?

I think the majority of kids are bright enough to know it's wrong, but I wouldn't be so quick to say that no kid is ever influenced by their heroes banging on about guns and killing.

 

[dum dum]

Dumb, dumb, dumb. Not when you see the latest spate of "kids killings."
They encourage each other to be the big man and then it goes horribly wrong.

Yeah kids will encourage each other to do stupid things,thats what kids do.But whats behind the violence,anger,fear etc? Its bigger than hip hop thats for sure.

 

[dum dum]

So you think that the constant glorification of guns and violence by some artists has no effect whatsoever on the attitudes of any child who listens to it?

I think the majority of kids are bright enough to know it's wrong, but I wouldn't be so quick to say that no kid is ever influenced by their heroes banging on about guns and killing.

But Ed why guide the thread down the line of 'Violent Rap Music blah blah' its obvious that if rap music is a factor its the very tip of the iceberg when housing,education,youth clubs,policing,employment are taken in to account.

To answer your question, and taking other factors into consideration I don't think rap music makes much differance.Maybe its just the sound track to some young mens unhappiness.

 

[Orang Utan]

You're no dum dum! Wise words

 

[editor]

But Ed why guide the thread down the line of 'Violent Rap Music blah blah' its obvious that if rap music is a factor its the very tip of the iceberg when housing,education,youth clubs,policing,employment are taken in to account.

I wasn't - people have just leapt on my comments and blown them out of context.

Read my original post. I wasn't making a Big Point, just an observation.

 

[ShiftyBagLady]

i certainly think that violent rap envokes an aggressive and exciting energy and its better than the reality of the drudgery and deprivation and depression that engulfs thse young men

it really saddens me that this is no longer treated as an outrage. if this were happening in a leafy suburb somewhere then people would be concerned or they might do something.

its become so unremarkable to me that i pass by yellow notices and i dont look twice and i really do know better.
a loved one of mine was murdered on brixton hill, he was stabbed right by the busy road and nobody stopped to help and no witnesses came forward. it chips away at your humanity that these things, these tragedies are a regular occurence and the community accept it or at least they dont actively fight against it
the only community driven efforts ive seen have been the mothers against gun crime and the demonstration by the church goers after a murder not so long ago, i wish we could do something further reaching and of course i wish for a magic wand and for all the answers

these boys are so young, they have lost a long life, their mothers have lost their sons. its so sad but what can we do? how do we stop it and will we?

 

[jæd]

Some of these rappers should start thinking about the consequenses of their lyrical content, most G rap is about life on the projects in America, some of it exagerrated, some it true, but for fucks sake whilst 50p and other G rappers are sat back sippin Krystel champagne some teenage lad somewhere is taking to heart what these fuckers write down and rap about.
Its gone from G rap being the commentary of the streets to being a manual of conduct on the streets.

What he said... How about a record telling us about a life in gaol for killing someone, or a family ruined because someone thought bang-banging in the hood was kewl...?

 

[London_Calling]

But Ed why guide the thread down the line of 'Violent Rap Music blah blah' its obvious that if rap music is a factor its the very tip of the iceberg when housing,education,youth clubs,policing,employment are taken in to account.

To answer your question, and taking other factors into consideration I don't think rap music makes much differance.Maybe its just the sound track to some young mens unhappiness.

You think? Nothing to do with home life and influences then. It's . . . society.

You sure it's not because they're getting with the ghetto ting so's to be down like their bro's in the hood stateside?

It's also a great excuse for under-achievement.

 

[Blagsta]

You think? Nothing to do with home life and influences then. It's . . . society.

You sure it's not because they're getting with the ghetto ting so's to be down like their bro's in the hood stateside?

It's also a great excuse for under-achievement.

What influences home life?

 

[waverunner]

Surely it's not that black and white? Remember what it's like to be a kid? If you're not in the cool/popular group at least try not to stand out by being clever or anything ridiculous like that cos that's just asking for it. Basically, the rule as a kid was to conform. So even if a kid is bright and knows right from wrong, he knows that the other kids who play to conformity rules also carry knives and guns... perhaps it's just easier to just try and blend in by being like them than risk getting picked on? But once you're in that circle some other gang will have it in for you anyway. Vicious cycle, self-fulfilling prophecy, catch 22. Sad.

 

[wtfftw]

Perhaps a different thread should be started for the discussion of cultural reasons for gun crime? I'm not going to dismiss it, like I don't dismiss the impact porn has on views of women.

My thoughts are with this boys friends and family.

 

[bluestreak]

this thread makes me remember that OU said he was going to lend me GTA - you coming to splash tomorrow?

 

[piratetv]

“God and Nature first made us what we are, and then out of our own created genius we make ourselves what we want to be.”

Marcus Garvey

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

So you think that the constant glorification of guns and violence by some artists has no effect whatsoever on the attitudes of any child who listens to it?

I think the majority of kids are bright enough to know it's wrong, but I wouldn't be so quick to say that no kid is ever influenced by their heroes banging on about guns and killing.

I'm sure some are, but all of society can't be subject to rules that cater down to the weakest links.

 

[Orang Utan]

this thread makes me remember that OU said he was going to lend me GTA - you coming to splash tomorrow?

Unfortunately I'm working. Maybe I could bring it round on Monday. I'll PM you cos this ain't the place to discuss it