Techies HELLLP!!! WTF is 'python'???

[sleaterkinney]

Python scripts get compiled to bytecode (like java). What sort of things do languages that arn't compiled let you get away with?

I thought it was scripted?

If it's fully compiled it normally has stronger syntax and type checking.

 

[disc0tech]

fine...except I had inexplicable problems accessing google at the moment I asked (since fixed), which is why I put the thread up, and also because googling on a word as common as 'python' brings you a huge amount of dross to wade through.
What IS still the case was the actual point I made, which is that tech knowledge is utterly, totally irrelevant to good recruiting. something about which - with all due respect - neither you nor jaed are in any way able to pass credible comment on.
and, umm, can you tell me about these oodles of techies who HAVE made it in my line of work, seeing as you 'don't agree with point a) at all"?

IT recruitment is sales, which is completely the opposite of coding. Neverthless, I am an IT professional, I can't code, but I have heard of Python LOTS....

Anyone worth his salt in IT knows where to look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_programming_language

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

I can't code

You should try 'python'.


http://www.python.org/


Never heard of a 15 year old programming language? Can't get 'Google' to work?

...sounds like you need an 'IT Professional'!

Can't find one? Well, I don't know what to suggest. Try a fishmonger.

 

[Streathamite]

I didn't say that there were 'oodles of techies who HAVE made it in your line of work' did I so please don't start that kind of dishonest bullshit. I am just honestly surprised by your lack of technical abilty. It'd be a bit like me not knowing where Charing Cross station was. I don't actually have to go there, but I need to know where it is.

YOUR words;

I don't agree with point a) at all actually.

No-one else's words - yours.
my point in my posts, clearly; as has been infinitely proven by the actualite; tech knowledge has FUCK ALL to do with recruitment.
Never has done.
Never will do.
which is why i've never known a 'code toad' to succeed.
You are ABSOLUTELY wrong in your assertion that tech knowledge is important.
MARKET knowledge is what counts.
That; I have enough of to launch a fleet.

 

[maomao]

YOUR words;

No-one else's words - yours.

Which were not equal to the statement you claimed I had made.

my point in my posts, clearly; as has been infinitely proven by the actualite; tech knowledge has FUCK ALL to do with recruitment.
Never has done.
Never will do.
which is why i've never known a 'code toad' to succeed.
You are ABSOLUTELY wrong in your assertion that tech knowledge is important.
MARKET knowledge is what counts.
That; I have enough of to launch a fleet.

Fair enough you little capitalist piggy. But if you hadn't had us today you wouldn't have been able to do your job. And you can't even use google properly.

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

Fair enough you little capitalist piggy. But if you hadn't had us today you wouldn't have been able to do your job. And you can't even use google properly.

Hey maomao, you're not alone in detecting the irony of someone telling you that tech knowledge is not important while they are in a tech forum asking techies technical questions just so they can do their fucking job! Way to prove a point!


He's kinda right, tho. I mean, slave traders didn't need to know how to cut sugar cane to make an absolute killing...

 

[maomao]

Hey maomao, you're not alone in detecting the irony of someone telling you that tech knowledge is not important while they are in a tech forum asking techies technical questions just so they can do their fucking job! Way to prove a point!


He's kinda right, tho. I mean, slave traders didn't need to know how to cut sugar cane to make an absolute killing...

Well it's kind of rubbed in by the fact that I'm sitting here trying to do my job on a so-called 'bespoke' system that was 'sold' to my boss by an IT professional whose coders can't get their fucking heads round the concept of despatch time and think it's okay for me to do a 5 minute reboot at midnight every fucking day.

 

[laptop]

Are you serious?. Java, Pascal would be mentioned, isn't python scripted instead of being compiled?

Oh, it will definitely be offered as an answer.

But that doesn't make it a good answer.

Someone asks "what is a good language to start programming in?"

People who started with languages that are good choices - because they teach rigorous logical structure, strict typing and everything - will discuss the question. We're quite likely to recommend languages we don't use, but whose logical and grammatical characteristics we understand.

People who started programming with languages that are poor choices will for that reason misread the question as "what language did you start programming in?"

 

[tobyjug]

HA - Jezza thought a python developer was a fast growing snake

It sounds more like a sexual aid.

 

[rich!]

Are you serious?. Java, Pascal would be mentioned, isn't python scripted instead of being compiled?

I've learn many computer languages over the years. I even wrote a couple.

Python is the first language after LISP I ever met where I could guess the code and get it right.

Except that Python is *readable* by non-geeks.

It's been called "executable pseudo-code" by people far more skilled in linguistics than I am.

And yes, if you want to learn a language, learn it first.

 

[jæd]

you mean, you haven't a clue how an IT recruiter works, on a day-to-day level, and therefore wouldn't have an earthly as to a) my degree of technical knowledge is irrelevant...

I deal with IT Recruiters every so often. And it would be really, really nice if I could talk to one and actually have them understand what I'm saying. And then be able to trust what the recruiter is actually saying is a reliable indication of what the job I'm off to interview for is about....

Do you have any idea of how much time I've had to waste faffing about trying t make sense of the latest jobspec I've been sent, or the number of times I've turned up at interviews were it is blindingly obvious that the recruiters has no idea of IT and so I've sent somewhere where I have no relevent skills...?

You might be ok with not needing any knowledge to get anywhere in recruitment but dealing with such recruiters is *painful*...

b) why it is that, out of the scores of techies i've seen trying to make a living at people-finding, NOT ONE has succeeded.

Why I (or any other techy) want to do that it...?

ETA: and I mainly do .NET people, as it goes.

Thak God for that. I'm mostly Java, Python, etc... I probably will never deal with you...

Dealing with IT recruiters with zero knowledge of IT is about the worst thing I have to deal. My career, in the hands of know-nothings...!

 

[jæd]

You are ABSOLUTELY wrong in your assertion that tech knowledge is important.
MARKET knowledge is what counts.

Only if you want to succeed in the IT recruitment field.

 

[disc0tech]

Jezza, market knowledge is important, but the most important thing is being able to match the right person to the right job.

I am continually infuriated with the IT recruitment industry, many resourcers simply look for keywords without any understanding of the work. For instance, I have been routinely rejected for positions because I have not used the right keywords on my CV.

As an example, I work in Quality Management - even though a lot of this relates to software testing, some resourcers are unable to understand the correlation. Hence I have several CVs geared up for different 'keywords'.

...

and they never return phone calls....

 

[jayeola]

there's also ruby [http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/] It's an object-oriented language that's very similar to python. I tend to find that Ruby is a lot easier to read. You could join the python mailing list and ask for a py developer. You'd get alot of responses....

 

[Pie 1]

Christ almighty - Jezza comes in here and politely asks for a bit of quick help and gets flamed by tech twats.
maomao & jaed; you should listen to yourselves - you're complete arses.

 

[jæd]

Christ almighty - Jezza comes in here and politely asks for a bit of quick help and gets flamed by tech twats.
maomao & jaed; you should listen to yourselves - you're complete arses.

Well... I've had to put with a lot of consultants who think like Mr Jezza does... Have you...? "tech knowledge has FUCK ALL to do with recruitment." Yep, fine then. Like another poster said all you're doing is living off someone else's industry and not even caring about what they do...

(To do him some credit he at least did try and find out what Python is. Most recruiters would just bs...)

 

[Pie 1]

Well... I've had to put with a lot of consultants who think like Mr Jezza does... Have you...?

No I haven't. But I do know that in my field (pro photography) if someone asks me a technical question in a polite manner whether they be an assisant, an art director, a client or whoever I try explain it to them in a succinct & friendly manner & they generally appriciate that.

I mean what's the fucking problem? Why do you have to have such an arsey & condesending attitude to a simple question that could have been answered simply and without issue? Is you're tech head really that far up your arse?
Jesus.

 

[jæd]

I mean what's the fucking problem? Why do you have to have such an arsey & condesending attitude to a simple question that could have been answered simply and without issue? Is you're tech head really that far up your arse?
Jesus.

No problem with people asking questions. Its just being told that tech knowledge is worthless in a tech related field (and in a tech forum) is a bit annoying... Mr Jezza might think its worthless to him, but to an awful lot of people it can save a hell of a lot of time. You've probably never had to deal with IT recruiters so you don't know the hassle and ineptitude they inflict becuase of their "I don't need to know nuffink" attitude...

 

[Kameron]

It's also an explosive minefiled clearance system, an improvement over the old viper system. It usese a rocket and tube of HE to blow a clear channel through high density minefields.

Fuel-Air Explosives (FAEs) bombs (also know as vacuum bombs) are in fact a pretty clever idea for clearing mine fields though their later use for jungle clearance and the discovery of their effectiveness against bunkered personnel first by the US military in Vietnam and the Russians in Chechnya (and anyone who wanted a ranch in the Brazilian rain forest though I believe that only anecdotal evidence exists for this) if obviously a seriously unpleasant and destructive use of a interesting application of fluid physics. This works by using a small charge to produce a petroleum aerosol and then a secondary charge to trigger a air fuel explosion creating a pressure wave. Once again man takes an interesting idea and makes it into an exceptionally nasty way to kill people not least because this weapon has similar destructive power to battle field nuclear weapons but without the public relations fall out.

 

[Kameron]

As an example, I work in Quality Management - even though a lot of this relates to software testing, some resourcers are unable to understand the correlation. Hence I have several CVs geared up for different 'keywords'.

This is my experience as well but my response isn't to fight it, I just whack in all the keywords and I use the keywords associated with specific parts of my industry over and over again since (in some systems at least) this effects the weighting that your CV is given by the search.

 

[Kameron]

Langauges that are compiled don't let you away with as much, hence they're good for learning.

I agree that they teach you discipline particularly with regard to declaration and structure but I'm not sure that they are better for learning. It depends entirely what you want to do. I know that when I write large chunks of code bad habits I have from scripted languages do make my life harder but by and large I write 10-20 minutes of code a day and I need a result instantly, I don't need to write much exception handling or error trapping because the code only applies to the particular data set I have on my desk today.

 

[miss minnie]

Jezza, market knowledge is important, but the most important thing is being able to match the right person to the right job.

I am continually infuriated with the IT recruitment industry, many resourcers simply look for keywords without any understanding of the work. For instance, I have been routinely rejected for positions because I have not used the right keywords on my CV.

As an example, I work in Quality Management - even though a lot of this relates to software testing, some resourcers are unable to understand the correlation. Hence I have several CVs geared up for different 'keywords'.

...

and they never return phone calls....

have to say i agree with this wholeheartedly.

i read an interesting article about women and recruitment but sadly i can't remember where i saw it.

apparently, us women will really only apply for jobs where we are sure that our skills match the requirements very closely. as opposed to the men who see only a few matches with their skills but are apparently more likely to have a go, wing it and hope for the best... and lie a bit. the article criticised technical job specifications as being sloppy, too full of unnecessary jargon, catch-all lists that cater to the male mindset. it was a fairly convincing argument as to one of the reasons for the lack of women in the i.t. industry.

some (most) agencies are way too keen to get bums on seats and commission in pocket. a little more quality, a bit of thought and they could really *serve* the i.t. industry instead of just leeching of it.

 

[spudulike]

Actually, I agree with jezza, python is obscure - I've never seen it or any programs written in it ever...

Cars are probably "obscure" to tribes in the Amazon with little knowledge of technology

Google phrase search to avoid the snakes: 693,000 for "python programming"

 

[mauvais]

Cars are probably "obscure" to tribes in the Amazon with little knowledge of technology

Google phrase search to avoid the snakes: 693,000 for "python programming"

You get snakes too?

 

[jæd]

Cars are probably "obscure" to tribes in the Amazon with little knowledge of technology

Google phrase search to avoid the snakes: 693,000 for "python programming"

"python it" gets me "www.python.org - Python Programming Language" as the top result. And I get the same in MSN Search as well...

 

[FridgeMagnet]

One comes across a lot of very shit IT recruiters, but they tend not to be shit because they don't know about IT - they tend to be shit because they have absolutely no people skills, cold-calling, hassling people on the phone, trying to get numbers, coaching new candidates on specific interview questions based on what the last one had, and generally lying about jobs to candidates and lying about candidates to clients. It's not because they don't know what's required - it's because they don't CARE, and they're just hoping that eventually somebody will pass the interview if they throw enough random people at it.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

Are you serious?. Java, Pascal would be mentioned, isn't python scripted instead of being compiled?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_programming_language

"Python was originally developed as a scripting language for the Amoeba operating system capable of making system calls; that version is no longer maintained."


Another vote for "never seen it used anywhere"

And, having seen Mr J's comments on other threads regarding IT recruitment, I'd say that he is certainly one of the good ones.

 

[Radar]

I think Portage (the software update utility for Gentoo Linux) is written in python

 

[fractionMan]

It's a bit like ruby. Everyone goes 'isn't it good' and then continues to use perl/php/java.

 

[WouldBe]

Some of the techies can be just as thick.

I went for a VBA job at a top IT company and was explaining about an Excel spreadsheet that e-mailed itself out when completed.

I was asked if I had written a DLL to do this.

No, I replied, I used the inbuilt mail functions.