Team sports are an exercise in nationalistic chest beating

[mattie]

Necessarily? No. In fact it's most unlikely. But seeds are being sown.

There's some huge diffrences involved, because towns and nations are different sorts of entity regardless of how much they have in common. So Oxford, for instance, have never been at war with Swindon. It's all on a very different level, which is not to say there isn't plenty about it that's unhealthy.

Seeds sown for what? Do you see pride in one's nation as a bad thing, or is your objection to the manner in which it is expressed?

You stated you didn't like the public's reaction after England beat Germany, is that because for some it had a WWII undercurrent, Germany still being 'Gerry'? What about the reaction when England beat Australia in the 2003 RWC or the 2005 Ashes? Was that more or less palatable?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Seeds sown for what? Do you see pride in one's nation as a bad thing, or is your objection to the manner in which it is expressed?

I think it's largely a bad thing, yes, and among my reasons for saying so is that I think it lends itself to means of expression that I don't much like. I think it tends to strengthen values that I would not consider good ones.

You stated you didn't like the public's reaction after England beat Germany, is that because for some it had a WWII undercurrent, Germany still being 'Gerry'? What about the reaction when England beat Australia in the 2003 RWC or the 2005 Ashes? Was that more or less palatable?

I think the first of these was by some distance the most unpleasant. It was lairy. The others - well, I mostly missed the union thing (I was actually on a train when the game took place).

 

[Flashman]

I think the Ashes parade was more relief than pride.

Flintoff celebrated it in the correct fashion.

 

[mattie]

I think it's largely a bad thing, yes, and among my reasons for saying so is that I think it lends itself to means of expression that I don't much like. I think it tends to strengthen values that I would not consider good ones.

I think the first of these was by some distance the most unpleasant. It was lairy. The others - well, I mostly missed the union thing (I was actually on a train when the game took place).

Is/are there any specific value(s) you find problematic? Also, would you say that your problems with it's expressions are to do with your tastes? I do not intend that as an insult, as I find the triumphalism of certain (typically football, for some reason) fans to be pretty distasteful myself, but I'm aware that for some 'getting one over' seems to be the entire reason they support certain teams (on this forum you'll find many such examples) - this is perhaps a matter of 'taste'.

eta: Sorry for all the parenthesis, lazy I know.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Is/are there any specific value(s) you find problematic? Also, would you say that your problems with it's expressions are to do with your tastes?

No, I think it's that I have a deep problem with identification with one's nation and the consequences of it. Often people say "oh, there's a difference between patriotism and nationalism"* and while there is, it is not nearly, I think, as clear-cut as people imagine. And as I say, at very least it's something that should be thought about, and doubted, a great deal more than it is. Given its importance.



[* = occasionally they will refer to Orwell in doing so, which is a little ironic given Orwell's views on national sporting contests]

 

[likesfish]

cretins will always use any excuse for violent mayhem

to be fair most people can sing songs wave flags and have a laugh with an opposing supporters country etc without resulting to violence

induhviduals got drunk smashed up a pub where rival supporters were watching there team play Brighton. THIS was in Brighton and these alleged supporters couldn't be arrsed to get tickets for the match they were in there 40s and had jobs and families
mind you we had somebody stab a Russian student because he though he was German as if being German would have made the fact that england lost a footy match acceptable behaviour