Teacher guilty of 'incompetence'

[BlueSquareThing]

Wow, that's appalling. Are we looking at a big crisis brewing in schools because of this, i.e. there soon won't be enough subject teachers to cover the classes required?

You mean like in Maths, Physics and MFL classes in lots of schools?

The extra edge to this is that quite a high proportion of the teaching profession is 50+ as well - when they all go there's the potential for stuff to hit a fan.

There has been a drive on to get young uns into the job - but it's quite true that an awful lot of people don't make it past year 3 - which, ironically, is the point at which it starts getting easier imo. I'd make the 2nd year, particularly, easier by guaranteeing more free time and courses I think. That was the one I found by far the hardest and that was 15 years ago when the paperwork thing wasn't as bad as it is now.

 

[_angel_]

I keep hearing this but why do so many NQTs find it tough to get a job? (I only know about Primary though).

I think it's dependent on the area of the country and maybe subject?

I know there were about 200 applications for one teaching job in Leeds, but think there's still a recruitment problem in London schools etc.

 

[Meltingpot]

You mean like in Maths, Physics and MFL classes in lots of schools?

The extra edge to this is that quite a high proportion of the teaching profession is 50+ as well - when they all go there's the potential for stuff to hit a fan.

There has been a drive on to get young uns into the job - but it's quite true that an awful lot of people don't make it past year 3 - which, ironically, is the point at which it starts getting easier imo. I'd make the 2nd year, particularly, easier by guaranteeing more free time and courses I think. That was the one I found by far the hardest and that was 15 years ago when the paperwork thing wasn't as bad as it is now.

The paperwork has got to go IMO, that's the logjam in all this. Either that or schools should be given extra funds for department secretaries to help cope with it.

I think we'll be seeing more people applying to become teachers as a result of the economic downturn we have now; how well they'll be able to cope with the job as it stands is another thing.

 

[scifisam]

It's odd news, though. Yes, it's good that really incompetent teachers are struck off, but why should her name also be splashed across national newspapers?

 

[Treacle Toes]

It's odd news, though. Yes, it's good that really incompetent teachers are struck off, but why should her name also be splashed across national newspapers?

I thought that was harsh also.

 

[Relahni]

I thought that was harsh also.

Name and shame NuLabour culture.

I'm all for striking off shite teachers, but not overly keen on the spotlight being put on them.

Being in a job where you are clearly shit, must be a bit of a dent to your confidence. To have the national press highlight the fact that you were shit, is just harsh.

At my secondary school, we had a couple of utterly crap teachers - just plain awful. But there's no way they could get rid of them. We also had a paedo teacher who won awards for his teaching. He was a good teacher, but used to grope the girls.

Most of the teachers were alright.

 

[scifisam]

She could also end up being a very good teacher in FE or some other teaching field, if behaviour management is the problem rather than other matters (being struck off the GTC just means you can't work in state secondary or primary schools). But I guess now she's unlikely to work in education again at all.

 

[phildwyer]

My mum was a teacher and she said there were a lot of alkie teachers

I was well aware of that by the time I was eleven. Half of them were legless by 4pm. And I was just saying how many of the nutters we get on here are teachers. Mind you, it must be an awful job.

 

[catinthehat]

Stabby, boozy, incompetent, racist, nonces - ah, forgot legless nutters. Roll up roll up - your chance to get even with Mr Bobbins who gave you detention 20/30 whatnot years ago.

 

[sim667]

Its cus they've introduced a license to teach now, should push up the quality.....

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

Stabby, boozy, incompetent, racist, nonces - ah, forgot legless nutters. Roll up roll up - your chance to get even with Mr Bobbins who gave you detention 20/30 whatnot years ago.

But equally if they are racist, nonces, legless nutters, bullies who dont do their job properly its only right and proper that they can now be discpilined and struck off...

If you are a decent teacher who does their job perperly you have nothing to worry about so why the outrage? Surely its better for you to know that the people who bring your profession into disrepute than now be dealt with rather than the old reality which was "be as shite as you like, nobody can touch me"

 

[phildwyer]

If you are a decent teacher who does their job perperly

As yours so obviously were.

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

grow up.... I;m dyslexic and quite often dont notice when Ive made a typo.
But no teacher managed to teach you not to be a complete cock end did they?

 

[catinthehat]

But equally if they are racist, nonces, legless nutters, bullies who dont do their job properly its only right and proper that they can now be discpilined and struck off...

If you are a decent teacher who does their job perperly you have nothing to worry about so why the outrage? Surely its better for you to know that the people who bring your profession into disrepute than now be dealt with rather than the old reality which was "be as shite as you like, nobody can touch me"

Because there tends to be a lack of perspective - a teacher turns into "teachers" then everyone wades in with their own wrong un teacher story. Like I say all the people I work with put everything they have into their job sometimes at the expense of their health and relationships. When you do that an all you read about is general slagging - and its not just here its all over the shop - it just gets tiresome. Yes - 100percent if they are not fit for the job then out, no problem with that. One of the reasons why they are leaving in their droves is in part the general climate of teacher bashing.

I am lucky in that I teach adults who are really positive about their relationships with us and give loads of support by way of thanking us for good classes and keeping in contact years after and that in a way makes up for all the negative shite. But I know people who teach younger pupils and they hear the negative stuff and read it and it does not help at all.

Todays teachers are a very different breed than the teachers I had at school. The job has become very difficult and when you have been knocking your self out to do a good job it really is difficult not to take it personally.

Classic example - today there was a primary inset day so some of my mature students had their kids home from school so we set up a sort of mini creche in the back of the classroom and then I and another lecturer looked after the kids in our lunch break so the students could go ofsite to the library. After work I am in the supermarket and the person in front of me is banging on about the primary school being shut because of lazy feking teachers having a day off.

I am not defending bad teachers - the reason I am a teacher is because I think good education can improve peoples lives so no way am I happy about bad teachers. But most are not bad, most work their arses off and most care a lot about their students.

If there were a story about -say - a single parent doing something bad, people would not (well I hope they would not) start debating it by saying single parents pull your socks up or relating stories of single parents they knew that bla bla bla.

I hate to come over all conspiraloon but I do think that to an extent the "teachers are crap" thing is a bit top down and fits nicely with the general marketisation of the state system. If you can get people thinking its all crap it makes it so much easier to dismantal.

Maybe I can get a bit ranty and defensive - but I worked out some time ago if I was going to do this job well it had to become a lifestyle more than a job. When you are responding to students emails panicking about essays at midnight and then reading that "teachers" are lazy/nonces/etc - well tis hard not to kick off.

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

But the problem is NOBODY here has said all teachers are terrible- far from it.
I'm sure most of us have known and do know teachers who probably shouldn't be allowed to be teaching

Its only you and a few others who have got ridiculously touchy and defensive about it and yes it does look exactly like you are defending appalling teaching practices under the guise of "go on then, attack us all, we are all terrible"
when not one person here has even suggested any such thing...

Im not aware of any climate of 'teacher bashing' particularly on these boards... There are an awful lot of things wrong with the education system in this country, Im sure if we debated it or looked back through many threads here we would find it but not a 'teacher bashing' culture...

In fact that would be my uttmost criticism of state schooling and the governments meddling in education- teachers arent allowed to do their job and get on and teach the way they find works best any more.
Probably accounts in no small part for the huge numbers leaving teaching so soon after qualifiying

 

[phildwyer]

grow up.... I;m dyslexic and quite often dont notice when Ive made a typo.
But no teacher managed to teach you not to be a complete cock end did they?

They proved sadly inadequate at that particular task, true. Probably wasn't in their job description. Sorry.

 

[catinthehat]

Well I cant be arsed to do a content analysis of the entire thread to show what I mean but first comment is "teachers pull your socks up". Plural. Your first two posts on the thread detail teachers that you had two being bullies, one link to a media story and one facebook page dedicated to a teacher who was a git.

Maybe it is a "ridiculously touchy and defensive" response. I am prepared to agree on that - but can you see the reason why ? I do see why people might weigh in with storys of bad teachers because bad teachers obviously scar people and they remember it long after they leave school. Its not as easy as well if you do a good job you shouldnt take any notice - its a question of climate, how is your profession seen by others.

If you were a teacher you would most certainly be aware of a climate of teacher bashing - we all have heightened awareness when the issue concerns ourselves.

I agree with your final paragraph.

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

Did you read the media story BTW?
Its the head of the behviour support unit in our local primary which serves some of the cities most challenging children.. who it seems, saw fit to leave her job to the teaching assistants while surfing the net for hours at a time..
So yes, another teacher who brings your profession into disrepute...
People comment because these people exist, not because people believe all teachers are terrible.

I reckon people here have commented because its a good thing that finally something can be done to remove them from teaching children and doing the damage that they do... Thats peoples feelings in relation to BAD teachers.. not ALL teachers which is what you seem to be confusing because yes, you care. It seems some who arent teachers have also cared enough to comment, because they also care maybe???

 

[catinthehat]

We agree on the key points of this issue.

Yes I read the story and there is no defence for any teacher who mucks up peoples education or who fails to treat their pupils with respect. But I can guarantee if you were a teacher you would be aware of a tendency to make sweeping generalisations - as per Teachers pull your socks up. My socks are well up, as are the socks of those I work with. Of course its a throw away remark on the internets and as such does not amount to much. I used to work in schools and some parents (note some not parents) would - no doubt because of bad experiences when they were at school - pass on their dislike for teachers as a job lot onto their kids. More than once I have heard things along the lines of "My mum/dad says teachers are ..(insert random derogatory remark)..........". Thats going to mess with kids education almost as much as bad teachers.

There a plenty of comments that fall into the category you describe - people that comment because they care about the situation and have thought it through but its the ones that refer to "nutters" and half of them being drunk by 4. Really ? Half the teachers in a school drunk ? Its that old interpellation thing.

 

[Red Cat]

Its not as easy as well if you do a good job you shouldnt take any notice - its a question of climate, how is your profession seen by others.

I think its really clear that there is a culture of teacher bashing in the UK. It started in earnest in the eighties and was part and parcel of the Tory govt's drive to control education, defeat the trades unions, dismantle the welfare state and public sector and create a neo-liberal economy in which no-one fights back. Scapegoating of social workers and hospital consultants, for example, serves the same purpose.

The general image created by successive governments and the media is one of lazy, incompetent, self-interested public sector employees getting in the way of progress and duping the public. And whilst its important that people are good at their jobs, all the talk of accountability is a means of undermining trust in public sector professionals, which makes it easier for govts to try and make them puppets of policy. It makes it harder for profs to resist attacks on their profession because the 'public' does not trust their word. It also makes it easier to sell off these services to the private sector, which is precisely what is happening across the board in education, health and social services.

 

[Meltingpot]

Stabby, boozy, incompetent, racist, nonces - ah, forgot legless nutters. Roll up roll up - your chance to get even with Mr Bobbins who gave you detention 20/30 whatnot years ago.

Just my 2 pennyworth on this.

Most of my teachers were fine, some were even excellent but.....

Trust me, we had a few bastards as well. And what you've got to realise is, there is NOTHING you can do about it if you're a pupil other than leave the school, because teachers stick together. You've got to simply grit your teeth and put up with it.

On a related note, why do so many teachers consider it acceptable to give whole class detentions or other punishments? If you're in the police, you don't lock up a whole town just because you don't know who kicked in the window of the Dog and Duck and nicked £20 from the till?

Final point. I belong to a website run by and for former pupils of my school, and part of this is a forum where we post memories of our former teachers. Some of the most scathing comments have been from pupils who went on to become teachers themselves. I've also given talks to teachers and heard similar comments.

 

[catinthehat]

I think its really clear that there is a culture of teacher bashing in the UK. It started in earnest in the eighties and was part and parcel of the Tory govt's drive to control education, defeat the trades unions, dismantle the welfare state and public sector and create a neo-liberal economy in which no-one fights back. Scapegoating of social workers and hospital consultants, for example, serves the same purpose.

The general image created by successive governments and the media is one of lazy, incompetent, self-interested public sector employees getting in the way of progress and duping the public. And whilst its important that people are good at their jobs, all the talk of accountability is a means of undermining trust in public sector professionals, which makes it easier for govts to try and make them puppets of policy. It makes it harder for profs to resist attacks on their profession because the 'public' does not trust their word. It also makes it easier to sell off these services to the private sector, which is precisely what is happening across the board in education, health and social services.[/QUOTE

Yes. Well put.

 

[catinthehat]

I have been teaching over 15 years and have never heard of a whole class detention be given. I have never given detention in my life. And if a teacher was not doing their job I most certainly would not 'stick together' with them and I dont know anyone else in the job that would.

 

[equationgirl]

Well, my whole physics class got one because there was a metal block missing after an experiment on density. It later turned up in the assistant's prep room because it hadn't been put out in the first place.

And that was in 1986.

 

[lontok2005]

Just my 2 pennyworth on this.

Most of my teachers were fine, some were even excellent but.....

Trust me, we had a few bastards as well. And what you've got to realise is, there is NOTHING you can do about it if you're a pupil other than leave the school, because teachers stick together. You've got to simply grit your teeth and put up with it.

Certainly there are some bad apples in teaching, as in any profession, but how as a child can you possibly have any comprehension of the intricacies of what goes on in the staffroom or after lessons end? At that age do you really understand office politics, or unions, or the realities of work? 'Teachers stick together' seems a very facile statement to me, just like 'all bosses are bad'. I can understand that one might think such a thing as a kid, if it seems that just because one teacher is an idiot and against you, then by extension all teachers must be idiots and against you, but as an adult such an idea sounds ridiculous. There is a truth that people in professions tend to rally around their colleagues, for many reasons, but it's not unique to teaching and nowhere near as simple as the idea that they just stick together.

 

[JWH]

The point of the thread is not to discuss whether teachers are alkies although people are of course free to talk about their experiences. It was more to open up the debate of how teachers are more scrutinized now.

I don't know that you can draw the conclusion that teachers are more scrutinized now from the news story alone.

If anything, the fact that there has only been one sacking for incompetance in 2/3 years of the law being in place shows that effective scrutiny probably is not taking place. If you had a "failure rate" of 1% of employees who were incompetant, you'd be doing extraordinarily well, and miles ahead of the private sector. But there are 50,000 teachers in Scotland, and if only 1% were truly incompetant, that's 500 people who should lose their jobs. But in 3 years, 1 person fired might suggest that there are 499 teachers who haven't been "caught". (In reality, I suspect that many of those few inept teachers probably quit or walk out before waiting to be fired, which might make the whole obvious numbers game a sideshow).

Meanwhile, I know quite a few teachers (although I am neither a teacher or a parent myself to be clear), and all of them that I have discussed this issue with have said that they'd like to see more crap teachers fired. Bad teachers just create a drag on everyone else; one in particular said that she would always try to avoid a "sink school" not because the kids/community was challenging, but because she saw them as a dumping ground for crap teachers.

At the same time, I am not trying to be anti-teacher, and (supposedly) one of the compensations for the low salary has been a bit of insulation from the hire/fire vagauries (sp?) of the private sector. I wouldn't want to see anyone fired for no reason. But any organization/structure that fired as few people as Scottish schools seem to do seems to be failing to manage its workforce properly...

 

[Treacle Toes]

I don't know that you can draw the conclusion that teachers are more scrutinized now from the news story alone.

..

I don't, maybe I wasn't clear. I have been teaching myself now for some time and I know that things are tougher now for teachers in terms of government standardisation (legislation) and the work of OFSTED. There are stricter controls and more thorough checks going on.