Tate Gardens/Brixton Central Square

[lang rabbie]

I had a very interesting conversation over a beer earlier in the week.

My source claims that a project to do basic works to reclaim Tate Gardens this spring has been stalled by a senior officer in Lambeth Regeneration, who seem to be concerned that their "grand project" for a Brixton Central Square would be stymied, even though it isn't deliverable until 2007-08 at the earliest. There have apparently been masive rows between various officers, but so far as I can tell administration Councillors know nothing.

The smaller scale project, led by the Friends of Brixton Library (?) was backed by the Parks Department, has been supported by the local police crime reduction officer, and had funding lined up from Western Riverside Environment Fund. It would cost about £30,000 (?) and appears deliverable. It involves taking out the raised planters etc. that provide some cover for anti-social activity, and they are also looking at options for putting in a superloo.

The people involved are aware that they can't just bulldoze the street-drinkers away and are talking to St Mungo's about running a project out of local voluntary sector premises (don't know if they've talked to the neighbours yet)

One officer told my source that the senior officer is a Labour Party stalwart and is working on an assumption that the current administration will be gone in 2006, and is determined the whole Central Square/Raleigh Hall/Black Cultural Centre shebang will only be unveiled by a newly victorious Labour Lambeth. My source would prefer not to believe this, believing, as I normally do, that cock-up rather than conspiracy theories are the norm in Lambeth.

So why is a leading officer of the regeneration team, with Brixton links, reportedly determined to stop a scheme that could help bring money into Central Brixton?
Is there a meeting of the Brixton Forum central square working party later in the month (22nd?) [Can't get access to the Lambeth diary function from office PC]

And has anyone else heard anything?

 

[hatboy]

Well I want the "grand scheme". But I don't care about the infighting, I just want them to get on with it!

Maybe a little tidying-up beforehand wouldn't go amiss, but if the "grand scheme" for Raleigh Hall and Tate/Windrush doesn't happen that would be utterly shit. It could be wonderful as a new useable, landscaped space with "The Windrush Centre" opening on to it.

Sick of all this really - how many years of planning and squabbling does it take to get any environmental improvements round here?

Delays on Windrush - will Raleigh Hall become the community space/cafe/black cultural centre? For fuck's sake get on with it Lambeth!!!

Electric Avenue - historic, famous, falling apart!

LAMBETH - FUCKING GET ON WITH IT!!!

 

[Anna Key]

And has anyone else heard anything?

All I've heard is that on 18th February a "planning day" was held "to decide on actions that could be taken to reduce drug-dealing, drug misuse and street drinking on the Brixton Oval" (to quote my source).

I didn't know about this meeting and haven't trawled the Lambeth website for minutes. Being only a close local neighbour I'm obviously never told about such meetings or informed of their outcomes.

 

[aurora green]

For fuck's sake get on with it Lambeth!

Couldn't agree more!

 

[newbie]

Good idea. Clear away the street drinkers and other riffraff in the name of yet another grand design. Make another bit of the area nice, squeeze the undesirables out.

Then, when that's been done, go back to complaining about gentrification.

 

[hatboy]

No Newbie - this is different. If the Raleigh Hall/Windrush project is done right it will be a wonderful thing for everybody. That's not gentrification, that is genuine inclusive regeneration - not the same thing.

A few drunks will be displaced. Possibly only temporarily anyway. I can live with that in exchange for a landscaped park with facilities and a new cultural centre/museum of British black culture which could be of international renown*.


*But probably won't be.... hoping tho. Also I think under the "black" umbrella it will be a place that celibrates the diverse mixture of people here. I'm told by the Black Cultural Archives that is the intention. But Brixton is the right place anyway for a centre that celebrates Windrush and the history of black Britons.

 

[newbie]

I've no strong feelings either way. A few years back when the street drinkers moved from outside what is currently Sainsburys to Tate Gardens I thought it was a good thing. Since then they've caused me no problems at all and I'm personally entirely happy about them being there. Other people may have different experiences, but I'm not really aware of any serious complaints about the drinkers. For the last couple of months there have been a lot of dealers there, but they seem to be moving back to the busstops now anyway. Come the summer I expect that space to be much the same as ever- strange, slightly edgy, occasionally very funny, mostly ignorable and generally safe enough to walk through with a toddler without any worries at all.

Displacing those 'drunks' implies them either moving back onto the High St, where they were in the way which caused unnecessary confrontation, or them and their community evaporating completely, which seems both unlikely and unfair.

But really, my point was harking back to the gentrification threads, where I've said that the only way to prevent it is to stop Brixton being so popular. Clearing away what some Home Counties types might think of as an anti-social eyesore will not reduce popularity. Nor will turning a deadish zone in to a thriving chunk of world heritage. I just thought it was quite funny that the most vocal anti-gentrifiers were in favour of tarting up another bit of oldstyle Brixton.



For the record I've no problem at all with the BCA, except that it involves: a) Lambeth Council; b) a community group; and c) public money. You'll forgive me if I don't have immensely great expectations.

I'd like to see Raleigh Hall sorted out, but I've never really seen any point in Windrush Gds and wouldn't worry if it got turned into something else.

 

[lang rabbie]

The practical question is that, unlike most other libraries in Lambeth which are increasingly popular now that there are new books/DVDs/web access, visits to Brixton Tate Library are apparently static/marginally down, because many parents/carers/older people now have a perception that Brixton Oval isn't a safe place to walk through.

 

[newbie]

Ah. Is this a longterm trend or recent, and is it a preception gained by someone with a vested interest in town planning or via genuine public survey? Is the Ritzy also noticing the same brake on growth?

 

[hatboy]

It's not about "tarting up". In this case I don't give a shit about "gentrification" OK. I want to see a fantastic, useful space and a brilliant museum.

 

[lang rabbie]

Ah. Is this a longterm trend or recent, and is it a preception gained by someone with a vested interest in town planning or via genuine public survey? Is the Ritzy also noticing the same brake on growth?

Read my original post again - the impetus for a quick and dirty project is coming from library staff and those library users in the Friends of Brixton Library. The latter group may be disproportionately white, and disproportionately articulate/middle class, compared to the totality of readers/visitors - but that is sadly true of many groups fighting for better facilities for kids in Lambeth. They are ranged against those people who believe regeneration = prestige architect-designed project.

 

[hatboy]

"...better facilities for kids in Lambeth. They are ranged against those people who believe regeneration = prestige architect-designed project".

Brixton deserves both great facilities and great architecture. We do not have any flagship new buildings of exceptional quality. We should.

 

[lang rabbie]

"...better facilities for kids in Lambeth. They are ranged against those people who believe regeneration = prestige architect-designed project".

Brixton deserves both great facilities and great architecture. We do not have any flagship new buildings of exceptional quality. We should.

Sorry, should have written "those who believe regeneration is exclusively about delivering prestigious 'magazine architecture' in "socially excluded" areas (cf graffiti covered Peckham Arch), rather than a design process that genuinely engages with the potential users."

 

[Bob]

I'd like to see Raleigh Hall sorted out, but I've never really seen any point in Windrush Gds and wouldn't worry if it got turned into something else.

Completely with you on this - what's the point of yet another bit of green space that nobody uses? Lambeth is full of places that have waited for years if not decades for the 'perfect' solution - lets go for quick and dirty things that make the place a bit better...

 

[hatboy]

Can't you see it's not Windrush being a "space" that's the problem. It's the empty, bad design/landscaping of the place that makes it shit. Imagine Windrush/Tate as one space with a small stage or concert bowl thing, a cafe, seating, band playing in the summer, a big glass conservatory on the new Raleigh Museum.

It could be so different.

 

[Bob]

Can't you see it's not Windrush being a "space" that's the problem. It's the empty, bad design/landscaping of the place that makes it shit. Imagine Windrush/Tate as one space with a small stage or concert bowl thing, a cafe, seating, band playing in the summer, a big glass conservatory on the new Raleigh Museum.

It could be so different.

That's the point though isn't it? It's the Raleigh that needs sorting out... if there was anything in or next to Windrush then it would be fine - nobody goes there because there's no point...

 

[aurora green]

I'd be happy if the loos opened really.

 

[newbie]

I'd be happy if the loos opened really.

absolutely; far better than having a superloo. Specially as the ones in the market are being reconstructed (or whatever).

LR, sorry. I've reread your root post and realise I'd misinterpereted what you said. None the less, those seeking this quick & dirty have a vested interest, and I assume have not done any form of consultation to find out if the drinkers really are the reason for the poor library performance.

I very seriously doubt that they've sought the views of the section of the Lambeth population who currently use a public space but who they, the worthies, want to shuffle off into some St Mungos 'project'.

Once the planters have gone, and the drinkers have been airbrushed out, what's left. A completely empty space that no-one will use at all. Great.

HB

Yeah, an outdoor stage and cafe (ie a private facility in what is now public space) right next to the noisiest roundabout in the area... what use is that on a Tuesday in February? The drinkers are there pretty much every day of the year. They use the space, but they're not, IME, particularly exclusive about it. A world class museum, with dead municiple space outside to conform to some grand vision thing...oh, and a road closure as well... and you say this isn't contributing to gentrification...

Like I say, I don't have any particularly strong felings either way, but those who want change, either short term quick & dirty or longer term grand vision, need to put forward a better case than so far. Right now I think the drinkers deserve to be left in peace to get on with their lives. aurora is the only one proposing anything that makes sense.

 

[lang rabbie]

absolutely; far better than having a superloo. Specially as the ones in the market are being reconstructed (or whatever).

Minor refurbishment of one of loos in Streatham cost £30,000+. The staff costs to ensure that it doesn't just turn into a 'shooting gallery' would probably be not much short of £50,000 a year. (I think that is what Lambeth currently spend that sort of sum running Popes Road)
After 20 years(?) closure, bringing the Tate Oval loos back into use would be regarded as new provision - as such it would be subject to the Disability Discrimination Act. Underground loos down 15 steps would not be compliant!!! Building a new DDA compliant loo on its own would probably cost £250,000. Surely it makes sense to put in a superloo for now and look at some sort of cafe/pavilion for the longer term.

I very seriously doubt that they've sought the views of the section of the Lambeth population who currently use a public space but who they, the worthies, want to shuffle off into some St Mungos 'project'.

I don't think its the drinkers that are the issue for library (non) users - it's the dealers who've moved in on the space. However, people involved at the library have recognised that there would be an impact on the drinkers. And the issue is that at present there seems to be FA support from any agency for the drinkers.

 

[newbie]

Support? they seem happy enough. Just because their lifestyle isn't exemplary doesn't mean they need a social worker.


I take your point about the costs of providing public toilets, and in particular about the DDA. Not convinced about a superloo though. Part time street urinals might be more use. Dunno.

 

[hatboy]

Newbie said:

"Yeah, an outdoor stage and cafe (ie a private facility in what is now public space) right next to the noisiest roundabout in the area... what use is that on a Tuesday in February? The drinkers are there pretty much every day of the year. They use the space, but they're not, IME, particularly exclusive about it. A world class museum, with dead municiple space outside to conform to some grand vision thing...oh, and a road closure as well... and you say this isn't contributing to gentrification..."

Look, whatever. I can't be arsed arguing about it. I'm saying this isn't the same as an expensive exclusive restaurant or something. A well designed park would be for everyone, including the drinkers. As it happens knowing something about alcohol abuse myself, I reckon some of those people might be grateful for help breaking their addictions and cleaning up anyway. St Mungo's has got some of the rough sleepers places to live. That is great. Not because I want them moved on, but because people deserve better lives.

Does anyone have any solid news on what's happening to Raleigh Hall? I heard that if the black cultural project doesn't come right by April the council will simply sell the building. If it becomes private flats or something because of incompetence or red-tape that really will be so depressing. After all this time and money, if Lambeth can't deliver this it is a scandal and just so damn crap I'd be tempted to go set the stupid fucking thing on fire myself and have done with it.

 

[aurora green]

Part time street urinals might be more use. Dunno.

only if you happen to be a bloke.

 

[Anna Key]

I use the Tate Labrary a lot and it's normally packed. So I'd be interested to see the evidence for any alleged punter downturn. I don't believe it.

The whole Tate Gardens drinkers saga makes me laugh. These poor buggers were booted out of the Atlantic when Merrett got his hands on it (working class black pub made safe for white yuppies). Then out of Brady's (permanently closed - the area being made safe for Argos) then out of the Coach and Horses (working class black pub made safe for white yuppies by Merrett).

I say leave them alone. Sure, send the police in and arrest the crack dealers. But leave the drinkers alone. And give them a portaloo.

 

[editor]

Quick note hatboy: could you please give a reason when you edit other people's posts as it may appear to others that something 'fishy' is going on!

 

[lang rabbie]

I use the Tate Library a lot and it's normally packed.

Lambeth libraries still have one of the lowest levels of use in the country. (They are no longer bottom of the league, and they are improving, helped by extended opening hours.) Compared with libraries in other town centres of equivalent size across London, the Tate Brixton is as busy as a mausoleum.

From the Department for Culture's Public Library Standards

Use of the library service
41. Active library borrowers in an authority should equal or exceed 45% of the higher of resident or enhanced populations. The DCMS Intervention Point will be 30% of the relevant population figure. (PLS 10)

Lambeth just avoids Government intervention on this one - 30% of residents use the Libraries.

42. The number of library visits per 1000 population will be (PLS 11):
...............................Resident Population..........Enhanced Population
Inner London ..............7,650 [6,200]................... 6,800 [5,800]
Outer London................8,600 [7,300].................... 8,700 [7,500]
Metropolitan Districts .....6,000 [5,200]................... 5,900 [5,700]
Unitaries ......................6,300 [5,000]....................6,200 [5,000]
Counties ......................6,600 [5,900]....................6,600 [5,900]
The figures in [square brackets] represent the DCMS Intervention Points.

From Lambeth Libraries' September 2003 Annual Library Plan

Increasing and sustaining the active use of library services is the service’s overall aim, ... Stretching targets have been set aiming to achieve a 10% increase in visitors year on year to 2006, and aiming to meet PLS11 in the longer term.
Total Number of visitors per 1000 population
.........2003 3982
.........2004 4474
.........2005 4921
.........2006 5413

and remember that these figures are skewed by the Streatham Tate, which somehow - despite various cuts to opening hours and the bookfund over the years - maintained a culture of regular library going much closer to the London average. The Brixton attendances are proportionately lower.

IMO we ought to be aiming for a library busy enough that there is pressure to reclaim the reading room space currently occupied by the commerical IT training centre for a properly resourced children's library.

 

[Anna Key]

we ought to be aiming for a library busy enough that there is pressure to reclaim the reading room space currently occupied by the commerical IT training centre for a properly resourced children's library.

Amen to that.

 

[hatboy]

Quick note hatboy: could you please give a reason when you edit other people's posts as it may appear to others that something 'fishy' is going on!

Sure. If there is a very clear mistake, usually where someone is quoting someone else and the code for the quote hasn't worked. ie if the above appeared like this:

 

[pk]

It would be good if you could give a reason for editing threads and then locking them so nobody can get a word in too, in the interests of fairness.

 

[miss minnie]

the kennington thread has been re-opened and now lives in the london forum, for those who may be interested.

 

[hatboy]

It would be good if you could give a reason for editing threads and then locking them so nobody can get a word in too, in the interests of fairness.

That is made quite clear on the thread "McBrixton75Land". Where your negative stereotyping of Brixton and tacky joke about Winston Silcott (neither guilty of PC Blakelock's killing nor anything to do with Brixton) have been edited... in the interests of fairness. Thankyou.