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Tatchell on Hamas?

I'm far from enamoured of Amnesty International, but would you care to explain why they'd lie about Hamas' attacks on gay Palestinians?

I've read and re-read Tatchell's Guardian blog thingy and at the Amnesty report it links to - and neither actually mentions attacks on gay Palestinians.

E2A: Where the Amnesty report identifies reasons for shootings, it is about Hamas attacking Fatah supporters, or alleged collaborators with the state of Israel (read, I am afraid: other political rivals to Hamas); and one PFLP supporter for whose attack Hamas apologised.

That's the whole point of my critique of Tatchell's piece - it's managed to create that impression in the mind of someone as literate as you, by implication and insinuation only.

As I said in #16:

me said:
His "argument" here goes like this:

  • Hamas is something called "islamist", which he doesn't understand; but
  • all he needs to understand is that "islamism" is said to oppress gays
  • Therefore Hamas is evil.

That is why I classify it as propaganda not reporting - and surmise that someone is using Tatchell to propagate their hasbara.
 
The nazis killed gays, didn't they?

It's a bit...you know....off? The whole nazi thing? :confused:

Because durutti is only capable of linear thought, it makes sense for him to directly link Hamas (and anyone else who resists Israel) to the Nazis. It's weak stuff but then we need to remember that durutti isn't playing with a full deck.
 
Quote:
Another favourite left and liberal justification of Hamas is that it is less corrupt than its Palestinian rivals in Fatah and that it organises social programmes for the poor. You could say the same about the Nazis....

Quote:
The Gazan people are lions led by Hamas donkeys. These donkeys keep giving Israel an excuse to attack the Palestinian people...

Quote:
In the future, Hamas is potentially as much of a threat to Palestinian freedom as Israel is today. Hamas shares a similar religious-political ideology to the tyrants in Tehran – Islamism. More than a faith, Islamism is a religious-inspired fundamentalist political movement.


I think he's right.
 
You're not wrong. :rolleyes:

I myself sometimes feel like invoking the nazis just to get some fucking order around here!
 
Do you agree with the nazi analogy?

Do you think it's fair?
no it is stupid and as wrong as those who argue israel is nazi .. but i agree with the general thrust of the article which when you look at the 4 sections which i have highlighted above ..
1) condemning israel
2) agreeing hamas should be part of negotiations
3) arguing hamas is not progressive
4) that hamas attack their political and relegious opponents
.. seems about right
 
I know this is in a different country but thought it still had relevence.:cool:

The Guardian
Onderwerp: The Sexual Cleansing of Iraq
Peter Tatchell
25 February 2009

In the bad old days of slavery in the United States, there was the "Underground Railroad" – a clandestine network of secret routes and safe houses – which spirited thousands of southern slaves to freedom in the north. Today, 200 years later in Iraq, a modern version of the underground railroad is saving the lives of gay people who are fleeing Islamist death squads. It is providing safe houses in Baghdad and other Iraqi cities, and is smuggling lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people to neighbouring countries, where it helps them apply for United Nations humanitarian protection. This secret network, coordinated by Iraqi LGBT exiles in London, is saving dozens of lives.

Since the fall of Saddam Hussein, homophobia and the terrorisation of LGBT people has got much worse. The western invasion of Iraq in 2003 ended the tyrannical Baathist dictatorship. But it also destroyed a secular state, created chaos and lawlessness and allowed the flourishing of religious fundamentalism.​ The result has been an Islamist-​inspired homophobic terror campaign against LGBT Iraqis.

You can watch two short videos, which show the terror of queer life in "democratic" Iraq here and here. This campaign of terror is sanctioned by Iraq's leading Shia cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. In 2005, he issued a fatwa urging the killing of LGBT people in the "worst, most severe way" possible.

This is the same Sistani who was praised by President Bush as a "leading moderate". The British government concurred. We hosted him in Britain for medical treatment. He was anti-Saddam, so the west backed him, even after he issued his murderous religious edicts.

Although the general security situation has improved in Iraq, for LGBT people it has deteriorated sharply. Systematic assassinations of queers are being orchestrated by police and security agents in the interior ministry, many of whom are former members of the Iranian-backed Badr Corps militia.

Queers are being shot dead in their homes, streets and workplaces. Even suspected gay children are being murdered. They killers claim to be doing these assassinations at the behest of the "democratic" Iraqi government, in order to eradicate what they see as immoral, un-Islamic behaviour. This programme of targeted murders has one aim, according to the death squads: the total eradication of all queers from Iraq. It is, in effect, a form of sexual cleansing. The killers boast that most "sodomites" have already been eliminated. The interior ministry is, of course, a key ministry in the UK-backed and US-backed government of Iraq. Some democracy! In fact, there is no democracy or human rights at all for Iraqi queers. If the government in Baghdad is not actively encouraging the mass killing of LGBT people, it is definitely allowing rogue police and Islamists to do so.

To protect against this terror and save lives, the Iraqi LGBT organisation has created its underground queer railroad, complete with safe houses and escape routes.

"Since establishing the safe houses project in 2006 we have provided refuge for dozens of gay people who were being hunted by death squads," reports Ali Hili, coordinator of Iraqi LGBT.

"We have also assisted people to escape from Iraq to neighbouring countries, where we have established resettlement projects. Our efforts have got gay refugees registered with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), and we've already moved some of them a third safer country, in Europe or North America. These lucky ones are now beginning to rebuild their lives," Mr Hili said

K is a 33-year-old architect who escaped to Amman in Jordan. He now helps run the Iraqi LGBT support group there, aiding other LGBT refugees from Iraq. So far, seven out of 23 Iraqi LGBT refugees who have been smuggled to Jordan have had their applications for asylum approved by the UNHCR and been able to secure asylum in countries such as the United States, Sweden, the Netherlands and Germany.

This heroic work is not without its risks and sacrifices. Many of the underground activists have been assassinated, in a series of grisly homophobic and transphobic murders.

Two lesbians who ran the safe house in the city of Najaf were butchered, together with a young boy they had rescued from the sex industry. Last summer, the coordinator of a Baghdad safe house, Bashar, was gunned to death in his local barber's shop by an Islamist hit squad. Previously, five gay activists who organised another Baghdad safe house were massacred.

The lack of funds is a perpetual problem. Three of the five safe houses in Baghdad had to close last year because of a lack of donations to keep them running. Two have since been reopened but it is a constant struggle to fund them. Money is needed to pay rent, electricity and food bills for the 10-12 LGBT refugees who are crammed into each house. Many more LGBT Iraqis still need a place to hide. Iraqi LGBT can be contacted through its website.


__._,_.___
 
no it is stupid and as wrong as those who argue israel is nazi .. but i agree with the general thrust of the article which when you look at the 4 sections which i have highlighted above ..
1) condemning israel
2) agreeing hamas should be part of negotiations
3) arguing hamas is not progressive
4) that hamas attack their political and relegious opponents
.. seems about right

Er, where has anyone said Israel is "Nazi"? It is true that the revisionist Zionists embraced fascism and that the Likud party and others have their origins in the Revisionist movement... or is this what you're alluding to?
 
As a (nominally) Muslim child of Muslim parents who is also a libertarian socialist I find it quite disturbing how people who should be aliies of other secular socialists are quite prepared to support religious extremists often against local secular movements.

Hamas are theocratic fascists and are vastly worse the christian fundementalists in the USA.They are only bested by the Taleban in Afghanistan and the nutcases who rule local areas of my parents Country of origin,Pakistan, These people have nothing to offer a socialist future and their is no excuse to back them.

Our Palestinian brothers could do a lot worse than start non violent protests to gain a state of their own ,eschewing violence against the israeli people as a matter of principle.
 
Hamas are theocratic fascists and are vastly worse the christian fundementalists in the USA

I find it revealing how the word "fascist" is applied to anything and anyone who doesn't conform to certain norms. In this case, the word has been employed by the US State Dept and the Israeli Foreign Ministry to demonise their opponent...while it ignores the fascist heritage of Likud and others. How are Hamas "worse" than US Xtian fundies? Furthermore, Hamas are not the monolithic Islamist group that our propagandists would like us to believe.
 
As a (nominally) Muslim child of Muslim parents who is also a libertarian socialist I find it quite disturbing how people who should be aliies of other secular socialists are quite prepared to support religious extremists often against local secular movements.

Hamas are theocratic fascists and are vastly worse the christian fundementalists in the USA.They are only bested by the Taleban in Afghanistan and the nutcases who rule local areas of my parents Country of origin,Pakistan, These people have nothing to offer a socialist future and their is no excuse to back them.

Our Palestinian brothers could do a lot worse than start non violent protests to gain a state of their own ,eschewing violence against the israeli people as a matter of principle.

Good post.
Its shocking to see how sections of the Middle Class left have been so willing to ditch so called principles on sexism and homophobia in the last few years.
Socialism has to mean standing up for rational people against irrational bigots like Hamas, Likud, the Taliban etc etc
 
It's a bit strong...no?
He conveniently forgets that Hamas used to be opposed to violence and organised social services, while Fatah's corruption and fighting were all that the press could talk about.

Here on urban, we identified the groups who didn't hold to the last ceasefire, which Hamas fulfilled, and for which Hamas were criticised heavily for not being able to completely stop those groups from firing rockets into Israel. Tatchell is not telling the whole story.
Guardian link
Mad stuff. Who rattled his cage? :rolleyes:
I thought Tatchell's anti-Muslim rage cage had been rattled a long time ago.
I don't agree with much of what Tatchell's writes/says. I don't know what gay Muslims think about Tatchell, but if I were a reporter, I'd want to find out.
 
He conveniently forgets that Hamas used to be opposed to violence and organised social services, while Fatah's corruption and fighting were all that the press could talk about.
since when have Hamas been opposed to violence? .. yes they organise social services .. that does not automatically make them 'the good guys' .. ask yourself why?
 
since when have Hamas been opposed to violence? .. yes they organise social services .. that does not automatically make them 'the good guys' .. ask yourself why?

Still ploughing the same furrow, are we?

Remember, anyone who criticises the Israeli state and calls for assistance to the beleaguered Gazans is one stop short of being a Nazi...isn't that right, durutti?
 
(bold by me)

Well no offence but the Palestinian people may not see 'Iranian-style theocratic tyranny' as such a bad thing, considering just having a thousand plus killed by what must be by extension a better regime and having spent over 5 decades in nigh on slavery. Religion is the answer to slavery....isn't it?

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people
 
I think the absolutely appalling homophobic hate campaign Tatchell endured when he ran for Parliament in the 80's drove him a bit bonkers.

and you sound like a patronising shit. As does the old my enemies enemy is my friend nonsense. Iran is a good example remember what happened to the Iranian left after Ayatollahs got the post revolutionary upper hand; they were tortured andslaughtered as they were tortured and slaughtered under the Shah.
 
and you sound like a patronising shit. As does the old my enemies enemy is my friend nonsense. Iran is a good example remember what happened to the Iranian left after Ayatollahs got the post revolutionary upper hand; they were tortured andslaughtered as they were tortured and slaughtered under the Shah.

He thinks the capital of Tasmania should be called Nibberloony (this is true).

The mark of a madman.
 
He thinks the capital of Tasmania should be called Nibberloony (this is true). The mark of a madman.
It's not true (Nibberluna, actually), and it's not mad:

Human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell has stirred up a storm of controversy in his native Australia by calling for the country’s state capitals to be renamed.

The British-based, Australian-born activist wants the English names dropped in favour of Aboriginal ones, arguing “renaming is about embracing an authentic, unique Australian identity, and honouring the country’s Aboriginal heritage”.

Tatchell sparked the furore during his visit to Tasmania this week, when he called for the state capital of Hobart to be renamed Nibberluna, the Aboriginal name for the place where Hobart now stands.

“It is absurd that most Australian cities are named after aristocrats from a country on the other side of the world”, said Mr Tatchell.

“It shows we are still mentally and culturally colonised by the imperial power that once ruled over us”.

“Naming our cities after English toffs is insulting and degrading to all Australians”.

“Instead of tugging our forelocks in a show of collective servility to Mother England, the names of our capitals should reflect the distinctiveness of this wonderful land and its amazing Aboriginal history”.

“Only a nation lacking in self-confidence names its cities after the ruling elite of a country that once invaded and occupied it”.

“The capital of India is not called Mountbatten, and Malaysia’s capital isn’t called Churchill”.
http://www.petertatchell.net/international/aussiecapitals.htm

Given the NT intervention and the fuckingawfulness of so many Aboriginal towns/cities in Oz, there are probably more important issues to be talking about, but I don't think this is in the Lembit Opik meteorite stakes of outlandishness.
 
Yeah, but he's been in the UK for 30 years or so, iirc. He's better known here than there, I believe.
 
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