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i would have thought the events of the last 25 years showed how wrong people were to write off religion.

If you look at some of Darwin's (massive) correspondence with religious people after the publication of Origin of Species (like late 1850s) you'd have predicted that God was about to disappear, or was at least seriously endangered. The opposite seems to have happened instead: Generations later and look where we are, you still couldn't get an atheist president of the USA for instance.
 
I can only speak for my part of the world, UK and Europe, but here, Christianity is largely regarded as a comfortable relic, cherished in some quarters but without real power, as for the Anglicans trying to reconcile various countries to the home of Anglicanism, it would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.
yes but you're not talking either for or about the whole UK, leave aside Europe, just your area. I'm not claiming my bit of South london is any more representative than what you observe, but here christianity is stronger than anytime in recent decades. Not just the African and Carribean flavour churches, but also the Catholic place down the road that used to have a tiny, mostly Irish congregation (according to a neighbour who cleaned there) but now seems to thrive, as does the fairly mixed Methodist one. The local mosque is also very busy. While I'd like to think your area is more in tune with the times and provides a beacon for the future, I somehow doubt it- you must have worked out by now that where Brixton leads the rest of the country follows. :D

Religion has not gone away, there's no question of having evolved through it, people still turn to it and its certainties for comfort and community, and they're still prey to bigots and sectarians.
 
yes but you're not talking either for or about the whole UK, leave aside Europe, just your area. I'm not claiming my bit of South london is any more representative than what you observe, but here christianity is stronger than anytime in recent decades. Not just the African and Carribean flavour churches, but also the Catholic place down the road that used to have a tiny, mostly Irish congregation (according to a neighbour who cleaned there) but now seems to thrive, as does the fairly mixed Methodist one. The local mosque is also very busy. While I'd like to think your area is more in tune with the times and provides a beacon for the future, I somehow doubt it- you must have worked out by now that where Brixton leads the rest of the country follows. :D

Religion has not gone away, there's no question of having evolved through it, people still turn to it and its certainties for comfort and community, and they're still prey to bigots and sectarians.
Not saying it's gone away, just much less important in the political mainstream, you speak of a resurgence but there is no such up here where church closures and falling congregations are the norm but then again I am probably out of touch with what's happening 'doon sooth' in recent years, is this resurgence broad based or mainly amongst immigrant communities?
 
Religion has not gone away, there's no question of having evolved through it, people still turn to it and its certainties for comfort and community, and they're still prey to bigots and sectarians.
I think this is spot on. Maybe the resurgence of religion globally (and nationalism / other sorts of imagined communities) all over the place is a direct result of the anxieties of modernity, urbanisation the internet etc .. Darwin would not be impressed anyway.

This is interesting, an attempt to put the drive to impose secularism from above on particular communities in some sort of context..
France’s much vaunted secularism is not the neutral space it claims to be | Giles Fraser
 
Not saying it's gone away, just much less important in the political mainstream, you speak of a resurgence but there is no such up here where church closures and falling congregations are the norm but then again I am probably out of touch with what's happening 'doon sooth' in recent years, is this resurgence broad based or mainly amongst immigrant communities?
yes, perhaps you are a bit far removed, not only because you're in the frozen north but also because you're rural (? I think) which inevitably means social change happens at a more leisurely pace.

A long time ago local churches were closing, I still have a souvenir organ pipe from one and regret not having the space to keep any of the pews that were freely available. That was reoccupied many years back and is now often very busy, as are ex-warehouses and shopfronts.

I'm not a churchgoer, so I can't be sure but from observation I'd guess a large proportion, probably a majority, of non-Catholics are British born and bred while anecdotally many of the Catholics are European migrants, probably Poland and Portugal mainly. But this is a very mixed area and guessing whether someone, or some group, is/are 'immigrant' is both pointless and foolish. No-one much cares and it makes little practical difference.

Whoever they are they're not the political mainstream, that's true enough, but then (despite what you read on U75 :) ) very few round here are.
 
oops, i should also have said that of course there are also 'faith schools' round here so there are also plenty of hypocrites pushy parents.
 
If you look at some of Darwin's (massive) correspondence with religious people after the publication of Origin of Species (like late 1850s) you'd have predicted that God was about to disappear, or was at least seriously endangered. The opposite seems to have happened instead: Generations later and look where we are, you still couldn't get an atheist president of the USA for instance.

How can something that doesn't exist,"disappear"? :p
 
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