teuchter
je suis teuchter
I can't remember for sure. It was a few years ago i traveled on that one. But i think underneath the lower bunk and/or in a rack above the top bunk.
Taking the train: London -> Madrid
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I can't remember for sure. It was a few years ago i traveled on that one. But i think underneath the lower bunk and/or in a rack above the top bunk.
editor
hiraethified
Can't see it as being much different to sleeping right next to a stranger on a plane, except you'd be more comfy on the train.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Nobody sleeps on intra-european flights, no need, they're too short.
Even long-haul, catching a bit of kip in a multiply shared cabin, patrolled by cabin crew seems infinitely preferable to being cooped-up on a train with Hannibal Lecter or Steelgate.
ethel
Well-Known Member
out of interest, just how many people have been murdered in such circumstances?
sleeper trains are a safe way to travel!
on the paris to barcelona one they take your passport off you overnight too.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
editor
hiraethified
I'll ignore your daft point about these fantasy murderers on sleeper trains, but will remind you that trauins are a whole lot safer than planes.
And of course, you're far more likely to suffer deep veined thrombosis on a plane than a train. And you can access the web/make calls/play games/play music/eat/send emails/stand up/go to the loo/have a stroll etc whenever you like.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
To Madrid?
Whoopeee!
Good job too since you're going to be stuck on the fucking thing for 18 hours.
So will you be taking the train then?
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
And you don't have to spend the whole flight waiting to hit an air pocket or a mountain, or for the floor to come away from under you leaving your feet dangling, as seems to be the fashion on rollercoasters these days, or for an engine to catch fire.....
I don't believe aeroplanes can fly..
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Don't forget cabin decompressions and bird-strikes!
editor
hiraethified
Dunno. Haven't heard back from the client yet, but if they can't stretch to the budget, I'll have to consider my options. I don't mind paying a bit more for the train, but I have my limits!
I really don't want to get the plane.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Is this true btw?
I thought planes were the safest form of travel. Not sure why though.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Biggles used to say so.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
Well I won't now!
And to try and say something relevant to the thread, I think it's a cool idea, ed.
editor
hiraethified
Actually, I think it's a bit complicated because it depends if you calculate it per passenger mile or journey. I guess I could be wrong or right depending on how you frame the question.
But this quote suits me fine.
mattie
missing in inaction
Depends on a lot of things - whether you count by miles, passengers, journeys or hours, whether you count by fatality or injury, whether you include civil, commercial and military in same bracket, and so on. Even after all these, I wouldn't have a clue except to say that (to my best recollection) commercial air travel is the safest form of travel per mile. That's probably because each flight does a hell of a lot of miles.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I was surprised at how poorly air travel faired on journeys undertaken. Not an awful lot worse than cycling
That can't be right can it?
I think someone's missed out a decimal point in the 117 figure.
It is surprising. But maybe not when you take into consideration the fact that the average plane journey must be something like 1000x the length of the average bike journey.
Per km seems the only really useful comparison to me. If you're trying to decide what is the safest way to get somewhere that's the only one that's relevant.
It doesn't say whether those figures are based on UK travel or worldwide averages. I imagine there would be very different results for each.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
I've just got back from Barcelona by train. Earlier in the year, I took the train to Venice. Here's what I think:
The Eurostar is fantastic, no questions asked. Pricey though, if you can't be flexible about travel times. The TGV Paris-Montpellier is cheaper despite being twice the distance.
The experience of changing stations in Paris is so-so. It's 2 stops on the RER commuter train from Nord to Lyon stations. The signage is confusing so be careful you don't get on a wrong-way train! It's a medium walk at Nord, but a short walk at Lyon. For Venice, the walk is longer as you have to use a sort of sub-station to Lyon down the road.
The experience of riding a train in the daytime is in all ways superior to the plane. The scenery is ever-changing, you get loads more legroom, more space to walk around, a proper bar, less noise, your own food and a sea level atmosphere. If you're on the TGV, you go so wizzy fast it's quite a thrill
The experience of riding a sleeper is so-so. Don't believe the hype of arriving 'refreshed and alert' - the beds are narrow and (imo) really should be parallel to the direction of travel, the train rocks around all over the place and unless you shell out, you have to share with strangers. I did not get a full night's deep sleep. I was fine during the day though - it didn't impact on the holiday.
The experience of arriving by train is in all ways superior. You have all your luggage immediately with you and you're right in the middle of the city with loads of easy transport right in front of you. In many cases you can walk to your destination.
For a short break, I think the sleeper makes sense. If you have to be in the (London) office on the days either side of your visit, then you can take the afternoon and morning off.
However, if you're going on holiday, I would recommend travelling during the day. The tickets are cheaper, and the actual journey is far more interesting and rewarding. When I got off the train at the end it felt like my holiday had begun much earlier that day.
Finally - cost. It's not cheap, it really isn't. Expect to pay around 3 times the air fare. The comparison is even more ridiculous if you book months in advance on easyjet or somesuch. Even factoring in airport transfer, it just doesn't compete. Of course, if oil carries on rising, this may change. Personally, the lower environmental impact and the pleasant journey are worth the extra money, but it really is a personal decision.
The Eurostar is fantastic, no questions asked. Pricey though, if you can't be flexible about travel times. The TGV Paris-Montpellier is cheaper despite being twice the distance.
The experience of changing stations in Paris is so-so. It's 2 stops on the RER commuter train from Nord to Lyon stations. The signage is confusing so be careful you don't get on a wrong-way train! It's a medium walk at Nord, but a short walk at Lyon. For Venice, the walk is longer as you have to use a sort of sub-station to Lyon down the road.
The experience of riding a train in the daytime is in all ways superior to the plane. The scenery is ever-changing, you get loads more legroom, more space to walk around, a proper bar, less noise, your own food and a sea level atmosphere. If you're on the TGV, you go so wizzy fast it's quite a thrill
The experience of riding a sleeper is so-so. Don't believe the hype of arriving 'refreshed and alert' - the beds are narrow and (imo) really should be parallel to the direction of travel, the train rocks around all over the place and unless you shell out, you have to share with strangers. I did not get a full night's deep sleep. I was fine during the day though - it didn't impact on the holiday.
The experience of arriving by train is in all ways superior. You have all your luggage immediately with you and you're right in the middle of the city with loads of easy transport right in front of you. In many cases you can walk to your destination.
For a short break, I think the sleeper makes sense. If you have to be in the (London) office on the days either side of your visit, then you can take the afternoon and morning off.
However, if you're going on holiday, I would recommend travelling during the day. The tickets are cheaper, and the actual journey is far more interesting and rewarding. When I got off the train at the end it felt like my holiday had begun much earlier that day.
Finally - cost. It's not cheap, it really isn't. Expect to pay around 3 times the air fare. The comparison is even more ridiculous if you book months in advance on easyjet or somesuch. Even factoring in airport transfer, it just doesn't compete. Of course, if oil carries on rising, this may change. Personally, the lower environmental impact and the pleasant journey are worth the extra money, but it really is a personal decision.
editor
hiraethified
Aye, there's the rub. I vote for the train every time, although there does come a point eventually where it becomes financially and/or practically a bit of a non starter.
Weclome back, btw.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Which makes air travel 10 times safer than it's closest rival, the bus, which is also safer than the train?
Doesn't sound right to me.
Mind you, I guess you don't often hear of bus passengers being killed do you?
Was in Madrid last year and this isn't strictly true - catch the underground from airport to Acocha station - 2 euros each way (yes just 2 euros). Inside the city any journey is 1 euro.
Just thought I'd point that out though personally I really fancy that journey on the train. Travelling by air is boring and a lot of hassle now with all the security.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Air travel is incredibly safe because the maintenance and operation of the vehicles is very highly specified and controlled. A car has to get an MOT every year and you only have to get one license. Planes are systematically inspected regularly and are operated by highly trained professionals who have to keep their licenses up to date. No contest really.
EDIT: ed - exactly my point. riding trains is fun, but planes are a form of torture.
EDIT: ed - exactly my point. riding trains is fun, but planes are a form of torture.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Yup.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
And stations are better than airports.
ethel
Well-Known Member
this isn't necessarily the case. if you can book ahead, the sleeper is cheaper than the daytime option for london-barcelona. also, you aren't "losing" a day to travelling.
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