Taking the train: London -> Madrid

[Chairman Meow]

London to Dublin, fast summer ferries are great.

In winter though.. Fuck that.

Plane all the way.

Anyone caught in an Irish sea storm will know why!

The boat train to Ireland sucks though if you are travelling anywhere other than Dublin. I still have nightmares about travelling to Cork by boat and train one Xmas. IIRC we left London around 9, arrived in Fishguard about 1 AM, where we had to wait in a little shed with hundreds of miserable people with bawling children and noisy fruit machines. The boat didn't set off till 3am. When we arrived in Ireland around 7am we were put on a freezing train which chuntered slowly around the south east, stopping at every station. When we got to Waterford we then had to take a coach to Cahir, where my ma in law picked us about around 1PM. So, about 17 hours of misery all told. Never a fucking gain.

 

[teuchter]

That's outstanding.

Can't argue. On a value basis, train "wins hands down"

For once .

It's especially good value when you consider it's a walk-up fare which you can buy on the day.

As for the time thing: I would say that realistically, the plane is going to save you maybe about three to four hours each way assuming a central London starting point. If you are going there and back in a day the train is not a realistic option.

However, the point is that the time difference is not as much as many people might assume, and once you factor in the possibility of getting work done on the train and/or ferry, it is certainly a viable option in many cases. Particularly once you also consider the cost and flexibility. As I said earlier in the thread, I was in Dublin last weekend and having described my journey to various people there, most were surprised how much quicker and cheaper it was than they would have expected, and said they might well try doing it in the future. We do seem to have created a situation in the last ten years or so where people just don't even consider other options than flying even for moderately short journeys.

I agree to some extent about the comments about winter/summer by the way. I have done that crossing in some pretty stormy weather and I couldn't pretend it was "comfortable" although it was quite exciting...

 

[teuchter]

The boat train to Ireland sucks though if you are travelling anywhere other than Dublin. I still have nightmares about travelling to Cork by boat and train one Xmas. IIRC we left London around 9, arrived in Fishguard about 1 AM, where we had to wait in a little shed with hundreds of miserable people with bawling children and noisy fruit machines. The boat didn't set off till 3am. When we arrived in Ireland around 7am we were put on a freezing train which chuntered slowly around the south east, stopping at every station. When we got to Waterford we then had to take a coach to Cahir, where my ma in law picked us about around 1PM. So, about 17 hours of misery all told. Never a fucking gain.

Times have changed a little though... I think you can do it in more like 12 hours these days and on newer/faster ferries and trains.

 

[Chairman Meow]

Times have changed a little though... I think you can do it in more like 12 hours these days and on newer/faster ferries and trains.

It depends where in Ireland you are going though surely? The actual boat trip was only 4 hours, it was the lovely Irish public transport that is available ( outside Dublin) that I don't think has really improved a lot since then.

 

[Spymaster]

It's especially good value when you consider it's a walk-up fare which you can buy on the day.

So I could just cruise in to the ticket office at Euston and buy a ticket to Dublin for £27?

 

[ethel]

So I could just cruise in to the ticket office at Euston and buy a ticket to Dublin for £27?

yup: http://seat61.com/Ireland.htm#London to Dublin

 

[Cobbles]

They're infinitely bigger and more comfortable than anything I've ever sat in in a plane,

If you spend 600 quid on a return short haul flight, you get a really comfy seat that you'll only be enjoying for a couple of hours.

Yes, standard plane seats are just as evil as the aircraft style seating that now predominates on UK rail services but you spend far less time in them because flying is Q-U-I-C-K-E-R - there I've spelt it out so even you can understand.

 

[stat]

I've done it many, many times by plane and it's rarely taken six and a half hours.

Incidentally did the £27 include the cost of a train ticket from Holyhead to London?

yep. bought from any train station, in advance or on the day. price includes train and ferry. 54 pounds return.

anyway, enough of this - this thread is for anecdotes about london-madrid, not a general train vs plane debate.

 

[ethel]

quicker is relative though. if i wanted to get to madrid for say 9.30am, i'd either have to get a 6am flight and get up at about 3am or i could get the eurostar at 2pm the day before (so leave work at lunchtime), finish my work on the train and then have a relaxing overnight jounry arriving in madrid at 9am with a proper night's sleep.

 

[editor]

If you spend 600 quid on a return short haul flight, you get a really comfy seat that you'll only be enjoying for a couple of hours.

You are indeed one of the dullest posters to be found anywhere.

Now go away as your bizarre plane addiction means that you'e clearly incapable of being of any use in this thread. I asked about trains to Madrid. If I wanted to here you bang on and on and on about planes I'd have added that option to the thread title.

 

[ethel]

ed: brief answer. do it. i had fun on my journey

 

[Spymaster]

yup: http://seat61.com/Ireland.htm#London to Dublin

It's certainly excellent value.

 

[Cobbles]

You are indeed one of the dullest posters to be found anywhere.

Is confounding your weird plane-phobic train obsessed ranting dull, then?

 

[editor]

Is confounding your weird plane-phobic train obsessed ranting dull, then?

Here. Look at the thread title. Read it again. Slowly. See the word 'train'? And the phrase "taking the train"?

Now see where your weird plane obsession has got you? LOL.

 

[Mitre10]

Some pros and cons here, and a bit on the actual London - Madrid route:


http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol...l/holiday_type/rail_travel/article1776513.ece


One man's meat is another man's poison though.

 

[Spymaster]

Some pros and cons here, and a bit on the actual London - Madrid route:


http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol...l/holiday_type/rail_travel/article1776513.ece


One man's meat is another man's poison though.

Too right.

That article makes the train journey to Madrid sound about as appealing as herpes.

 

[Cobbles]

a bit on the actual London - Madrid route:


http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol...l/holiday_type/rail_travel/article1776513.ece

" Aah, Paris in the rush hour – and the almost reassuring realisation that another European city has an underground network just as fetid and overcrowded as London’s. The overnight train to Madrid leaves from Gare d’Austerlitz, a cross-town commute from Eurostar’s Gare du Nord that’s just long and stressful enough to rewind all the tension you released on the cross-Channel glide."

Hey - that's exactly what I said!

"Later, during the hours of darkness and after a pleasant meal and a tour of the impressive wine list, the train’s real problem emerges. Many sleeper trains cheat by disappearing into a siding for six silent hours; or, second best, cruising along at a metronomic pace, rocking you to slumber. The Elipsos does neither – it stops, it starts, it clunks, it strains, it wheezes, it snorts. It’s not an appalling night’s sleep, but nor is it a beatific one – it’s an almost exact equivalent of one of those fancy flat beds on a transatlantic flight (and nobody’s pretending that you say “Goodnight” in New York and “Good morning” in London, as fresh as a summer lark)."


T &P - maybe you'd better rethink the concept of mr. editor not being in top form due to an early flight - it sounds like that's what the overnight train delivers. The correspondent did manage a better night's sleep on the way back thanks to a much higher booze dosage in the "functional, borderline-drab" train bar, but then hungover isn't exactly work-friendly.

 

[editor]

<nutjob drivel removed>

Still haven't grasped what the thread is about yet?

Let me try again: "Taking the train: London -> Madrid"

Penny dropped yet?

 

[Cobbles]

Still haven't grasped what the thread is about yet?

Indeed - taking the train to Madrid clearly ain't all it's cracked up to be.

Have you checked with your client to see if they're happy shelling out the extra dosh and that they'll be happy with you dozing off halfway through the morning?

 

[Mitre10]

[IT &P - maybe you'd better rethink the concept of mr. editor not being in top form due to an early flight - it sounds like that's what the overnight train delivers. The correspondent did manage a better night's sleep on the way back thanks to a much higher booze dosage in the "functional, borderline-drab" train bar, but then hungover isn't exactly work-friendly.

It certainly wouldn't be my choice of a way to travel for a day or two in Madrid. The travelling time vs. time at destination would be too similar a ratio for me.

For a few days longer I would seriously give it some consideration, sleeper trains, despite what the fellow from the Times says (who is likely to be used to staying in 5* hotels during most of his reviews), are very

All papers appeal to a demographic too and the writing is tailored to that. I can't see that the majority of the Times' readers being too enamoured about this manner of going on holiday, whereas reader's of the "Backpackers Journal" would probably love it. Again, that wouldn't matter so much to me.

Only problem I would have with it is the likelihood of getting at least one nutter in the sleeping berth - I had a God-botherer follow me up and down the train on an overnight London - Penzance journey once who only stopped his nonsense after being threatened with violence.

Also, cost would be a factor for me too. Trains cost a fair bit of cash at the moment and I don't have much of it.

Would like to do that Euro-tour mentioned in the second bit of that article though - maybe one day...

 

[Spymaster]

Only problem I would have with it is the likelihood of getting at least one nutter in the sleeping berth - I had a God-botherer follow me up and down the train on an overnight London - Penzance journey once who only stopped his nonsense after being threatened with violence.

Not having my own, locking compartment would be an absolute deal breaker for me. I was amazed when advised on here that the sleeper service to Scotland from London, pitches total strangers together in sleeping compartments.

You'd have to be a bit weird to think that acceptable in my view.

 

[ethel]

Not having my own, locking compartment would be an absolute deal breaker for me. I was amazed when advised on here that the sleeper service to Scotland from London, pitches total strangers together in sleeping compartments.

You'd have to be a bit weird to think that acceptable in my view.

i've never had a problem with it. it's only one other person on the scotland service. no different than being in a hostel really. i'm sure that they'd move you if there was a problem.


stop being such a massive grumpy cynic.

 

[Mitre10]

Not having my own, locking compartment would be an absolute deal breaker for me. I was amazed when advised on here that the sleeper service to Scotland from London, pitches total strangers together in sleeping compartments.

You'd have to be a bit weird to think that acceptable in my view.

Yup, I agree.

On the London - Penzance one, although it did have a sleeper carriage you had to share compartments so I elected to book the cheaper seated only accomodation and try and catch a few winks on the floor where the wheelchair spaces are.

Fuck sharing a tiny space with a total stranger, OK, it might be perfectly fine but its just not a situation I would want to be in and there's no way I'd be relaxed enough to sleep.

Afraid the only way I'd go for the London - Madrid train option would be if I was travelling with a friend and went for the "upper-class" 2 bed only compartment with them.

Otherwise, plane for me in this instance.

 

[editor]

Have you checked with your client to see if they're happy shelling out the extra dosh and that they'll be happy with you dozing off halfway through the morning?

I'd be a lot happier, less stressed and more relaxed than if I got the plane, actually, but thanks for your concern. Quite touching.

 

[Mitre10]

Hopefully the sleeper trains of the future will have some kind of japanese style pod system on them.

I would be far more inclined to use it if that were the case:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsule_hotel

 

[teuchter]

Not having my own, locking compartment would be an absolute deal breaker for me. I was amazed when advised on here that the sleeper service to Scotland from London, pitches total strangers together in sleeping compartments.

You'd have to be a bit weird to think that acceptable in my view.

You can have a compartment to yourself on the Scottish sleepers if you pay for a first class ticket.

I don't think you have to be "weird" to not find sharing with another person acceptable. Then again, I can understand why many might not be too keen on it. I do think the continental couchette setup (4 or 6 to a compartment) is a better solution really.

The best sleeper train I have been on (in terms of comfort/value ratio) is the newish German talgo couchettes, where you have your own curtained-off area off a corridor. By far the best solution if you ask me:

 

[stat]

my mate's just cycled over here from mongolia. got the first 1000 miles done without getting a puncture! sadly, her bike got nicked in paris, and again in london

having cycled across mongolia and kazakhstan, she now regards a cycle ride across europe as no great task - and does appear to be, in fact, the only form of transport she would consider!

how about that then ed, fancy cycling back?

 

[stat]

The best sleeper train I have been on (in terms of comfort/value ratio) is the newish German talgo couchettes, where you have your own curtained-off area off a corridor. By far the best solution if you ask me

that looks great. any idea what ticket prices are like?

 

[teuchter]

that looks great. any idea what ticket prices are like?

When I used it I think I had a railpass so just paid the couchette supplement, which was fairly standard (20 Euro or so I guess). I don't know what the regular price is - have a look on the DB website under the night train/ nachtzug section. Not all DB sleepers are this type by the way, though.

E2A: Have a look here:

http://www.citynightline.ch/nachtzugreise/view/en/reiseinformationen/preise_en.shtml

The "sparnight" prices (book in advance) can be quite good value if you can get one.

 

[Spymaster]

....no different than being in a hostel really.

Fab.

stop being such a massive grumpy cynic.

I'm not being cynical Sarah, as I said I'm in no way anti-trains. I think the Eurostar is an absolute masterpiece and, quite frankly am surprised that airlines are still running the London-Paris routes. I'd joyously use a similar service to every city that I currently fly to if it were available.

But sharing a sleeping compartment with ........ who knows?......... is just a no-no!

Afraid the only way I'd go for the London - Madrid train option would be if I was travelling with a friend and went for the "upper-class" 2 bed only compartment with them.

Now that I'd consider, for a laugh, on my own time.

The best sleeper train I have been on (in terms of comfort/value ratio) is the newish German talgo couchettes, where you have your own curtained-off area off a corridor.

Where is your luggage stowed while you're sleeping?