editor
hiraethified
A minute of my time is easily worth - ooooh - about three hours of your dull whiny time.
Now shut the fuck up please. Ta awfully.
Taking the train: London -> Madrid
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Now shut the fuck up please. Ta awfully.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Does it bollocks.
I love these plane v train comparisons. They very rarely bare any resemblance to reality (take best case scenario for one mode, worst for the other and see who buys it
!).Anyway I wouldn't mind doing London-Madrid by train. Not on business, I wouldn't waste that much of my time, but it'd be a laugh for a personal trip.
editor
hiraethified
Thing is, I wouldn't consider the hours on a hotel train watching the French and Spanish countryside whizz by from a comfortable seat as 'wasted time.'
I'd view it as enjoyable time. I can surf the web, make some calls, read a little, drink coffee and perhaps some beers, have a little snooze, go for a walk along the train, chat to some of my fellow travellers or just watch the countryside slip by. Lovely.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Likewise, that's why I'd need to do it on leisure time.
Perhaps you'd be able to offset the time cost by working on the train, but my business time is dead if I'm not in front of a client and there's no way I'd get to bill them for hours sat on a train. They'd laugh me out of Dodge!
editor
hiraethified
I'd rather be a bit financially poorer and have a richer life experience myself.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
I usually find that is the case, but the best case scenario is applied to air travel not the other way around.Does it bollocks.
I love these plane v train comparisons. They very rarely bare any resemblance to reality (take best case scenario for one mode, worst for the other and see who buys it
That's why some people are actually so foolish as to believe it's faster to go from London to Paris by air 'because the flight is only an hour innit' than it is by train. In fact the latter beats it hands down.
I've flown more than 100 times and I can honestly say at least 50% of the time the plane has arrived to the gate late. And unless one is travelling to and from small and quiet airports, you need to add at least 20 minutes from the moment the door of the plane is opened for disembarcament to the moment you physically exit the airport terminal. That's for hand-luggage only. If you need to collect any checked-in bags, god help you. That is actually a practical best case scenario. If we factor in a rather likely delay of half hour, under-staffed Customs clearance and a bit of a delay getting your bag you can easily add yet another hour to the journey time.
Similar story for arriving for your flight. As well as the longer check in times required there is the longer time to get the airport, the longer time to get to the gates, go through security etc etc etc. And if you need to go by the check in desk as well you can add another 20 minutes to the process.
Punctuality on trains (certainly international and Continental services) is almost faultless, and it takes far shorter to get to the station, to board your train and to leave the other station at the end.
The actual flight time, in my experience, only accounts for 30-35% of total door-to-door travel time when flying to destinations such as Madrid.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I take it you have night vision goggles, then as the hotel train is called a hotel as you sleep on it - at night - when it's dark.........
By the way, did you answer my points regarding the inaccuracy of your portrayal of passing through airports (which might sound accurate for folk who've never been to one) compared with the boundless joys encapsulated in hacking through Paris at the height of the rush hour? No, of course not - all you seem able to do is flounce off into Anglo-Saxon.
editor
hiraethified
Did you fail to read the article posted up about this very journey? Have you already forgotten the article I posted up last time you started your usual obsessive rantings?
I'll be buggered if I'm going to repeat myself if you're too blinkered to even read anything that doesn't go along with your bizarre anti-train agenda.
Now toddle off if you've nothing remotely on topic to add.
No I read the article - the train looks every bit as comfy as a 1960's ex-BR sleeper (although admittedly the Ex-BR stock doesn't have showers).
I'd still rather spend 20 minutes crossing Heathrow than hacking through a load of sweaty commuters across Paris and I hope you enjoy your 3 hours of rail-borne sightseeing before it gets dark - hopefully the food and drink aren't as gruesomely overpriced as on UK rail services.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
You're either using exceptionally poor airlines or referring to chartered flights since even shitty outfits like Ryanair have better on-time ratios than that. I've flown more than 100 times in the last 3 or 4 years alone and I'd estimate that more than 90% of my flights have taken off within 15 minutes of their scheduled slot.
Sure, but that's not very long is it? It takes almost that long to walk from the Eurostar platform to the taxi rank at St Pancras if you're at the wrong end of the train!!!
I'm not knocking it though, the Eurostar to Paris and back is a fabulous service and I love it. Wouldn't dream of flying London-Paris now, even though the train is often more than twice as expensive.
But trains are far more often delayed than planes IME and you have similar customs queues. Returning with Eurostar you simply swap your customs queue at destination for one on departure. Don't be comparing your holiday flights to Mallorca in July to winter business travel to Zurich!
We're talking about business travel here. Assuming you have no hold baggage there is zero check-in time with most airlines. You check in online the night before, stick a credit card in a machine, get your boarding pass and head through security which despite the odd nightmare anecdote, rarely takes more than 10-15 minutes. International train passengers are requested to arrive 45 mins before departure. European airline passengers 1 hour.
Depends on where you live. I'd suggest that a far greater proportion of the population of Great Britain live closer to an airport than to St Pancras railway station.
Sure, but if you think that taking the train from London to Madrid could be anything like as fast or faster than flying, you're bonkers!
There are no continental European cities outside France and Belgium that are currently served more time efficiently by train than plane.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I have done this journey several times. In fact, I did it in both directions this weekend just gone!
I think I managed to convince some of my Dublin friends to try it next time they are heading over to the UK.
You missed out a very significant advantage of the train/ferry option: you can buy the ticket on the day of travel and it is always the same price (£27): there are no quotas and, if you miss the ferry you were planning to get it is usually no big hassle to get the next one.
Also, it is a good option for anyone living somewhere that isn't near to an airport as that same price is actually valid to anywhere in the UK.
editor
hiraethified
Oh yes, it sounds soooooo much less comfortable than being wedged into a tiny little seat on a plane. Dream on.
Travelling 'Gran Clase' sleeper: You are greeted at the carriage door by the sleeping-car attendant who checks your tickets and shows you to your compartment.
He gives you a card key for your door and vouchers for dinner and breakfast in the restaurant car, which are both included in the Gran Clase fare. He asks you if you'd prefer the 8pm or 10pm sitting for dinner and takes your table reservation. He takes your passport and tickets so you are not disturbed by ticket or passport checks during the night.
Gran Clase rooms are compact but cosy, just big enough for two armchairs that disappear when the beds are folded out, see the photos above. The attendant will make up the berths while you are at dinner, one lower bed and one upper bed. Each Gran Clase compartment has an adjoining private shower room, just big enough to contain a shower, toilet & washbasin. Fluffy towels, mineral water and a complimentary toiletries pack with soap, shampoo & shower gel are provided.
A 3-course evening meal in the restaurant car, complete with aperitif of sherry or sparkling cava, wine, coffee & liqueurs, is included in the Gran Clase fare, as is breakfast next morning.
In Madrid, Gran Clase passengers may use the Sala Club (1st class lounge) at Madrid Chamartin, with complimentary tea, coffee, juices and beer. 'Gran Clase' is described as first class single or double 'with shower' on online booking websites.
Does it bollocks.
I love these plane v train comparisons. They very rarely bare any resemblance to reality (take best case scenario for one mode, worst for the other and see who buys it
wtf? my post was what happened in reality. care to explain which bit of my post was bollocks? i only wrote what actually happened last week...
Those first class perches look almost as comfy as the fold down jumpseats that the trolley dollies use on planes - for 5 minutes.
ethel
Well-Known Member
i went to barcelona on the train a few weeks ago and really enjoyed it.
to note though, on the way back no through night trains to paris were available and we had to get a train from barcelona to cerbere and then a french night train from there. unlike the spanish trains, there are no bars on these trains, just a couple of vending machines, so bring your own beer.
it was a shock to the system to arrive in barcelona feeling relaxed and with a sense of perspective of how far i'd travelled. i doubt i'll get the plane to mainline europe again.
i still get the plane to NI though. i refuse to spend more holiday time than necessary to visit my parents
ethel
Well-Known Member
i travelled on the paris metro with luggage recently. this was at 8.30am going out and 9.30am coming back. it really wasn't that bad. certainly not as bad as the northern line.
the food and drink prices were perfectly reasonable. certainly cheaper than the prices onboard planes!
ethel
Well-Known Member
the second class ones were comfy enough for me, so i presume that yes, the first class ones are very comfy. you fool.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
The bit I quoted, funnily enough.
For a start it's totally subjective as to whether a journey that takes an hour and a half longer "wins hands down".
You're also pulling the old trick of comparing apples with dogs in that you've had a crap plane journey and a perfect ferry/train trip. In actuality if you were to make the trip 10 times you'd be delayed on the ferry and train half the time too and the other half you'd probably have no delays by plane. Your comparison is therefore meaningless.
You use emotive language describing "stuffy" planes and buildings when, actually they're not. Not really. You only did that to contrast the "Lovely fresh air..." on the deck of the boat. Nice try though
.At best, your conclusion is not supported by your experience (the plane journey was more than an hour and a half faster despite substantial delays).
A more honest appraisal would be; that for people with plenty of time on their hands and the romantic desire to travel overland from London to Ireland; the train wins hands down.
For the rest of us it's inefficient.
I thought it was obvious that my comparison was a personal, and therefore subjective, one. I've added 'for me' to the end to help you see that.
ha! I so do not need to do the return journey ten times to make a comparison that isn't meaningless. Do you really do things ten times before you allow yourself to make comparisons? (incidentally, i've made that journey by train/ferry several times and never experienced delays)
You use emotive language describing "stuffy" planes and buildings when, actually they're not. Not really. You only did that to contrast the "Lovely fresh air..." on the deck of the boat. Nice try though
I'm not writing a formal report here: just a personal anecdote (which is what the OP called for, you'll recall). I used emotive language because that is how I felt. It was fucking glorious on that ferry (true, I was fortunate to have a beautiful day. But I like seeing wind and rain on the seas too
)^^
This.
Possibly the worst hours of my existance in a force 6 that unexpectedly went to a 9/10 during the crossing. Genuinely feared for my life.
Having said that, being in a plane that hit an air pocket in bad storm related turbulence over the Pacific and literally dropped 500 feet in aboout a second wasn't much fun either. Lockers burst open, food and drink everywhere, oxygen masks dropped, wings looking like they were about to break off etc.
Might just stay at home in the future
editor
hiraethified
I think it's fair to say that the air on the deck of a boat is going to be rather more pleasant to inhale than the recycled stuff you get circulating around a plane.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I've done it many, many times by plane and it's rarely taken six and a half hours.
Incidentally did the £27 include the cost of a train ticket from Holyhead to London?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I've done it many, many times by plane and it's rarely taken six and a half hours.
Incidentally did the £27 include the cost of a train ticket from Holyhead to London?
Yes, it does.
In fact, that is the maximum price to any UK station.
It is very good value.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
That's outstanding. Can't argue. On a value basis, train "wins hands down"
For once
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