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SWP refuse to debate Tatchell .. LOL

MC5 said:
It would be interesting to establish whether it's true, or not first? :D
Click to expand...
It would. Is it?

It has the ring of truth* because some people have condemned him as an "Islamophobe" and "pro-imperialist" for campaigning against homophobic judicial torture and murder in Islamic and post colonial countries.


*Which isn't, of course, to say it is true. Just that it sounds as if it may be.
 
This whole thread, and many more on here of late are evidence that more actual research should go on before people start churning rumour mills and boosting sectarian squabbles.

People should have a look at how COINTELPRO operated. People should have a read of Ken MacLeod's latest book "The Execution Channel" where he fictionally shows the destruction, disruption and dissension that can be wreaked by "keyboard commandos".

Just THINK. Is your comment constructive? Is your story futhering the side most of us believe we are on, or helping our enemies?

Things are getting really shit in the real world unless all of you hadn't noticed. It is time to put away childish things........
 
"Alex Callinicos ... withdrew on the grounds that he would not speak on the same platform as the supposed Islamophobe and pro-imperialist Tatchell ... The announcement of this fact from the chair drew a fair degree of hostility from the audience, as you can imagine ... It fell to the sole, unfortunate SWP student present to justify Callinicos’ decision. There is no point, you see, in taking part in small meetings (there were about seventy, mainly young people present) which will navel-gaze (read: discuss ideas) and only end up attacking the SWP. No, the really important thing is to build the anti-war movement, and mobilise for the Stop the War demonstration on March 15."
http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2008/03/07/looking-left-swp-left-convention
 
greenman said:
This whole thread, and many more on here of late are evidence that more actual research should go on before people start churning rumour mills and boosting sectarian squabbles.

People should have a look at how COINTELPRO operated. People should have a read of Ken MacLeod's latest book "The Execution Channel" where he fictionally shows the destruction, disruption and dissension that can be wreaked by "keyboard commandos".

Just THINK. Is your comment constructive? Is your story futhering the side most of us believe we are on, or helping our enemies?

Things are getting really shit in the real world unless all of you hadn't noticed. It is time to put away childish things........
Click to expand...

i appreciate what you are saying .. but part of our impotence is an untterly failed model of politics that the SWP personify - elitist dishonest authoritarian cowardly dogmatic etc etc etc .. while we MUST work together as we can in the real world ( asd i do ) we MUST also have a forum to battle these ideas out and that i think is here

p.s. as to the facts of the case the seem AS clear as most
 
durruti02 said:
"Alex Callinicos ... withdrew on the grounds that he would not speak on the same platform as the supposed Islamophobe and pro-imperialist Tatchell ... The announcement of this fact from the chair drew a fair degree of hostility from the audience, as you can imagine ... It fell to the sole, unfortunate SWP student present to justify Callinicos’ decision. There is no point, you see, in taking part in small meetings (there were about seventy, mainly young people present) which will navel-gaze (read: discuss ideas) and only end up attacking the SWP. No, the really important thing is to build the anti-war movement, and mobilise for the Stop the War demonstration on March 15."
http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2008/03/07/looking-left-swp-left-convention
Click to expand...
Hmmm, a Worker's Liberty 'fact'. IF it's true Callinicos is an idiot. If it's not, you are.
 
Hey all. A bit embarassing that I don't know the truth of this, since it happened in my ward. Been a bit out of the loop recently. I can ask Peter if people would like.

Matt

P.S. On the LGBT Africa thing, it seems to me to be a result of infighting within the pan-African LGBT movement - Peter works with one 'side' and so the other 'side' denounced him. Though I'm no expert. Peter's view on things is here:

http://www.petertatchell.net/international/africanlgbtismears.htm
 
An SWP report- still carrying on the total dishonesty:

One of the most electric debates at the ESF was a meeting between Toni Negri, co-author of Empire, and Alex Callinicos, author of An Anti-Capitalist Manifesto and a leading member of the Socialist Workers Party in Britain. The meeting was held outside because over 1,200 people could not get into the room. People stood on the metal bridge, sat on the concrete floor and perched in trees to engage in a very passionate debate. Toni Negri argued that the nature of production had changed so that the working class no longer played a central role in challenging the system. For him this meant that the 'multitude', comprising a range of different movements with their own agendas and logic, would bring down capitalism. Alex Callinicos argued that the working class was still central to bringing down capitalism and pointed to the way in which the Bolivian miners had drawn the rest of the oppressed behind them in the recent rising. The meeting was successful because it showed how our movement could engage in hard debate within the spirit of a common struggle against a common enemy.
 
butchersapron said:
An SWP report- still carrying on the total dishonesty
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:

What did you expect:

"A packed ESF meeting saw over 1000 people gather to witness the total humiliation of witless academic son of Hon. Ædgyth Bertha Milburg Mary Antonia Frances Lyon-Dalberg-Acton when pitted in debate against Toni Negri.
Callinicos predictably failed to grasp the issues at stake, set up a straw-man caricature of Negri's position, and then re-asserted the dogmatic and out-dated Lenininism that characterises his own irrelevant sect?"
:D
 
In Bloom said:
Transcript of Negri's speech

He doesn't seem to be saying anything that hasn't been said a thousand times before. Still, it pisses all over anything the SWP might have to say.
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That's just a tiny part of it, and to be fair, even if it's been said a thousand times before, negri was a key part of those that started saying it, that helped put this approach on the agenda - if it's been said a thousdand times, he said it a fair chunk of them times.
 
This definitely did happen, just had an email from Peter T saying that the reason given was indeed that he is pro-imperialist and Islamaphobic....

Matt
 
Bad Blood Between Loony Left & Greens

Oxford Radical Forum was set up mainly by the SWP.
The fall out with Tatchell & the Greens probably has something to do with him standing as a candidate in the General Elections for East Oxford.

Both RRESSPECT/SWP or whatever they want to call themselves, RESPECT proper (& probably IWCA) would be standing in this Ward against Andrew Smith.

Most of the non-alligned 'left' will be supporting Peter Tatchell/Greens.
The SP, about six months ago said they would be supporting him.

This makes the Dibacle RESPECT/RRESSPECT(SWP); both factions look even less like the political Vanguard they propose to be.:eek::(

WHERE'RE ALL DOOMED:eek:
WHERE'RE ALL DOOMED:confused:
WHERE're ALL DOOMED:hmm:
 
I doubt that the GE has much to do with it - RESPECT didn't stand in 2005 despite being 'unsplit', so I doubt they are yearning to stand in 2009/10. IWCA will though, but they were never going to support Peter T anyway, so thats fine.

Matt

P.S. butchers - the reason appears to have come for local SWP members, rather than Callinicos himself (though I wasn't there, so...)
 
SWP/RESSPECT have put someone foward to stand, however much I dislike them that is all I can say.

Heard some ISG members talking about individuals standing, but apart from that don't know.

I bet the Greens are very glad they did'nt get involved in this mess that is RESPECT. Soon as it dies a death the better.:eek::D:hmm:
 
Nigel,

Oh, so they are standing someone in Oxford East? How completely pointless. They'll get about four votes.

And quite rude not to have the courtesy to let us know, but oh well.

Matt
 
Matt S said:
Nigel,

Oh, so they are standing someone in Oxford East? How completely pointless. They'll get about four votes.

And quite rude not to have the courtesy to let us know, but oh well.

Matt
Click to expand...

I presume you are referring to the SWP. I expect they will want to stand where there are a few students to recruit, and Oxford East has more than a few.

There has been a Renewal branch launched headed up by John Lister. A meeting was held in February:
"The packed Town Hall saw John Lister (a joint Editor of the new Respect newspaper) open the meeting by explaining that Respect Renewal hoped to build a 'broader left' with Respect being accessible to all"
http://respectuk.blogspot.com/2008/02/oxford-respect-renewal-meeting-great.html

John was one of the people arguing that Respect should not stand in the South East Euro constituency in 2004, and should support the re-election of Caroline Lucas instead. I don't know what his view on Tatchell is, but he was the Socialist Alliance candidate in 2001.
 
butchersapron said:
That's just a tiny part of it, and to be fair, even if it's been said a thousand times before, negri was a key part of those that started saying it, that helped put this approach on the agenda - if it's been said a thousdand times, he said it a fair chunk of them times.
Click to expand...
Any idea where I can find a full transcript? All I'm getting from google is the same two or three reports from Autopsy, Indymedia and the SWP.
 
Fair enough - I hope not. Would be good to sit down and have a chat before people decide to stand candidates against already declared leftists in the GE.

Of course, they have a total right to do so if they want, but I would argue it wouldn't be the best use of £500 and precious people power.

Matt

P.S. durruti - do you mean who was the email from? As I said, it was from Peter T....
 
a great big :rolleyes: from me.

I appreciate that it may only have been a rogue member, but surely as a democratic centralist org said member will either be disciplined or is expressing opinions approved of by the CC.

Proves imo that the Greens were correct in not touching the SWPs overtures with a bargepole.
 
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