SWP Party Notes: The Return

[audiotech]

And neither did you or Donna, the other apologist.....

Apology's for telling it how it was.

 

[past caring]

Apology's for telling it how it was.

Sorry?

Your intervention in this thread was prompted by this;

they kept very quiet about that at the time, like when - in the early 90s - the bnp regularly smacked swappie papersales, something which might have been prevented had the swappie high command not been such low wretches and kept it from the membership.

To which you responded;

I remember a call by the SWP to defend those papersales. Demonstrations of people (not huge, not even large, but adequate) walking to city centre precincts. To put a halt to fascist intimidation. A large fascist banner was taken as a group of boneheads scuttled off back to whence they came.

Although you're recounting a specific incident, you're also, clearly, trying to counter Pickman's wider point. Nobody is doubting the truth of the instance you're talking about, but the discussion isn't about recalling our own war stories; it's about whether, during the early 90s, the SWP did refuse to acknowledge to the membership the extent of attacks by the BNP on their sales and about their refusal to take counter-measures. There's been a lot of evidence posted that this is precisely what happened.

Neither you nor Donna now seem to want to engage with that evidence, despite your initial disparagement of those you took issue with. That's fine - people will draw their own conclusions.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Neither you nor Donna now seem to want to engage with that evidence, despite your initial disparagement of those you took issue with. That's fine - people will draw their own conclusions.

Well, Donna's never actually disparaged anybody on this thread. A mild disagreement over phraseology and perspective, yes.

 

[past caring]

And no response to the substantive points made.....

 

[Donna Ferentes]

It's hard to, though, isnt it? It's kind of a case where all the evidence has been presented by only one party to the dispute. Scarcely your fault, obviously, but what can one do?

 

[audiotech]

Neither you nor Donna now seem to want to engage with that evidence, despite your initial disparagement of those you took issue with. That's fine - people will draw their own conclusions.

They will and will see that, in at least one area of the country, the local leadership did indeed take counter measures, which I assume was sanctioned by the national leadership? I don't know that for sure, as I left the SWP in 1990. Nevertheless, I thought it important to attend the event recounted as an anti-fascist.

 

[past caring]

It's hard to, though, isnt it? It's kind of a case where all the evidence has been presented by only one party to the dispute. Scarcely your fault, obviously, but what can one do?

Except that it's not like I was simply an SWP branch member during the time in question. I was a printer at the printshop from 86-91. Which means;

• I printed and read Party Notes as well as all the internal discussion documents,
• was in daily contact with members who worked there from across London - this was quite a large number, given the fact that student and unemployed members were pulled in to help out with Private Eye. People did talk to one another, especially about things like members and sales being attacked,
• I lived with someone who worked in the National Office - someone whose job it was to take reports from branches on local activity and developments. We were and are close. We also, surprisingly, talked to one another,
• whilst there was no attempt at alerting branches or co-ordinating any response, during the period in question the centre itself certainly tightened up on security to a marked degree - although these efforts were directed at securing the premises rather than the individuals who worked there,

So yes, I was in a position to have a better grasp of what was happening than most "ordinary" members of the party.

 

[Gumbert]

big festering sore this Q...

fuckin diddums

 

[past caring]

No festering sore at all, cuntflap.

Just a question of accuracy, of what did or didn't happen. Not something we'd expect to bother an SWPer in general or you, specifically, given your rep...

 

[Gumbert]

No festering sore at all, cuntflap.

Just a question of accuracy, of what did or didn't happen. Not something we'd expect to bother an SWPer in general or you, specifically, given your rep...

yup, re-lay that shit how your bigged up in the printshop knowing better than the rest of the lackeys playing big time a change in the capatilist bloc, again...

please

dont forget i play by my rep...me

 

[Gumbert]

dissillutioned and cynical...

then came flimsier to the printshop.....innit

 

[past caring]

On the pop again, I see.

 

[Gumbert]

big defence on your part...

<innit>

 

[past caring]

What's to defend? You're fucking incoherent.

 

[Gumbert]

oh shit...

yes iv'e enjoyed my night, but it doesnt shift one iota that you being the inside the party (printshop) knew how it transpired on the street....innit

having worked in the printshop myself and being on the street your version matches menchevism....

sorry i fall down laughing drunk at this point...its 6:09am

yuo never did get your head round centralism did you?

 

[james_walsh]

Hi
What pickmans model say , is completly true.
I remember around about 93 ,being on action in Hoxton,london. we new c18 where likly to be there, and we had heard of various attack by the BNP aginst swp papersales. We meet a swp papersale on the way to hoxton. and we warned them about the threat, and offered help. they denied there was any threat, and then about half an hour later got turnover.
paul marsh was with me, so please stop lyeing it boring