SWP in congress

[junius]

Is there a tick box form? In regard to the position of Mayor of London, do you ever consider electoral issues in any way connected to London?

No it's not about ticking boxes. All the candidates standing so far fail so massively on this score, none would be worth voting for.

It's about drawing a 'class line' between candidates on the basis of consistent opposition to Imperialism.

 

[poster342002]

No it's not about ticking boxes. All the candidates standing so far fail so massively on this score, none would be worth voting for.

It's about drawing a 'class line' between candidates on the basis of consistent opposition to Imperialism.

The war overrides all other class and/or policy considerations, then? A candidate could have an excellent redistributive/welfare policy for the working class, yet be unvotable if they didn't specifically oppose the war?

I'm also puzzled as to what the hell you expect the London Mayor to be able to do about the war, anyway, quite frankly.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

unvotable

???

 

[Mallard]

The war overrides all other class and/or policy considerations, then? A candidate could have an excellent redistributive/welfare policy for the working class, yet be unvotable if they didn't specifically oppose the war?

I'm also puzzled as to what the hell you expect the London Mayor to be able to do about the war, anyway, quite frankly.

Quite. I'd have thought tackling the serious problems of poverty, poor housing, low pay, expensive and antiquated transport and educational underachievement in London would be a priority for the Mayor myself.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Quite. I'd have thought tackling the serious problems of poverty, poor housing, low pay, expensive and antiquated transport and educational underachievement in London would be a priority for the Mayor myself.

How would the mayor tackle poverty or low pay in London?

 

[Mallard]

How would the mayor tackle poverty or low pay in London?

By encouraging cheaper housing, arguing for higher wages in the capital and lobbying for them. Providing free or subsidised transport and childcare for people in work and attracting inward investment in to London might be a start. I'm no politician but would have thought candidates standing for London Mayor should have given the above a thought.

 

[butchersapron]

'ken' seems to think he can. What a nice chap!

 

[Donna Ferentes]

By encouraging cheaper housing, arguing for higher wages in the capital and lobbying for them. Providing free or subsidised transport and childcare for people in work and attracting inward investment in to London might be a start. I'm no politician but would have thought candidates standing for London Mayor should have given the above a thought.

They don't have the powers to do that, do they? I quite agree with the "arguing for" bit, but if we're going to ask that the Mayor argues for things, we can say exactly the same as regards the war.

 

[butchersapron]

The war is a tad different isn't it? - Mallard has just given a loist of thinhs he can do. How many people does he employ for example? Or House? Or educate? And how many wars did he start?

Dug yourself a hole here Donna.

 

[poster342002]

They don't have the powers to do that, do they?

They don't have the powers to do anything about the bloody war, either!

 

[Donna Ferentes]

They don't have the powers to do anything about the bloody war, either!

I wonder if that may not be my point, as expressed in #68 above.

 

[butchersapron]

I wonder if that may not be my point, as expressed in #68 above.

And as shown to be wrong in later posts.

 

[newbie]

Quite. I'd have thought tackling the serious problems of poverty, poor housing, low pay, expensive and antiquated transport and educational underachievement in London would be a priority for the Mayor myself.

surely every aspiring politician would claim to prioritise poverty, housing, education, war...? that's what they do, make sweeping claims about all sorts of things, most of which are outside their remit.

 

[poster342002]

Given the limited powers of the Mayor, I'd rather they used their office to highlight issues of poverty in London (but that would mean dropping the tedious and uncritical "London is the best city in the world" schtick for five minutes, eh?It might upset big business a little? Can't have that, can we now? ) than to crap on about somemthing that has little or no resonance with London's poor.

But, hang on, most of the cod-left would be quite happy to go along with empty "London, ra ra ra! Oh, and I'm against the war!" drivel even though it did bugger all to help ordinary Londoners.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I think there's always a certain intolerance in "he shouldn't talk about that, he should talk about this instead". In truth an interest in the one does not preculde an interest in the other.

 

[butchersapron]

surely every aspiring politician would claim to prioritise poverty, housing, education, war...? that's what they do, make sweeping claims about all sorts of things, most of which are outside their remit.

Odf copurse trhey do. it doesn't reduce the ability to do 'something' about low pay or forms of poverty or increase the chances of being able to stop the war. That fact that they're both claims doesn't mean that they therefore have the same content. 'ken' might actually do fuck all to reduce poverty or low pay but it doesn't mean that he can't - whereas the war is out of his hands.

 

[butchersapron]

I think there's always a certain intolerance in "he shouldn't talk about that, he should talk about this instead". In truth an interest in the one does not preculde an interest in the other.

How about, 'i'd prefer if he concentrated on this, this wopuld get my interest and maybe my vote'. Is this acceptable to the tolerance police?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

'ken' might actually do fuck all to reduce poverty or low pay but it doesn't mean that he can't

In fact he has very little influence over either of these, not possessing the executive power to affect either.

 

[poster342002]

In fact he has very little influence over either of these, not possessing the executive power to affect either.

In which case, I'll say it again...

Given the limited powers of the Mayor, I'd rather they used their office to highlight issues of poverty in London (but that would mean dropping the tedious and uncritical "London is the best city in the world" schtick for five minutes, eh? It might upset big business a little? Can't have that, can we now? ) than to crap on about somemthing that has little or no resonance with London's poor.

But, hang on, most of the cod-left would be quite happy to go along with empty "London, ra ra ra! Oh, and I'm against the war!" drivel even though it did bugger all to help ordinary Londoners.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

How about, 'i'd prefer if he concentrated on this, this wopuld get my interest and maybe my vote'. Is this acceptable to the tolerance police?

It sounds to me like a restatement of the previous "don't do this" position. Unless it can be shown, convincingly, that for the Mayor to discuss (say) the war would leave him without time to discuss (say) transport or low pay. I think it's a specious notion.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Given the limited powers of the Mayor, I'd rather they used their office to highlight issues of poverty in London (but that would mean dropping the tedious and uncritical "London is the best city in the world" schtick for five minutes, eh? It might upset big business a little? Can't have that, can we now? ) than to crap on about somemthing that has little or no resonance with London's poor.

But it's a false opposition. False oppositions say more about the people who pose them than about the people to whom they are posed.

 

[poster342002]

The problem is, crapping on about the war has become a convenient alternative to campaigning over poverty for much of the cod-left.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

The problem is, crapping on about the war has become a convenient alternative to campaigning over poverty for much of the cod-left.

It's not, of course. Though it's possible that crapping on about the left has become a convenient alternative to having anything constructive to say for those who have nothing constructive to say.

 

[poster342002]

Also, any mayoral campaign over poverty in London would be conflict with the empty doctrine of "London is the best! LondON! LondON! LondON!" shite we've been getting for years, now. Hence a reason it doesn't happen.

I mean, a London that has these levels of poverty cannot, by definition, be "the best place in the world". So instead, let's not mention the poor and instead focus on the war, eh?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Also, any mayoral campaign over powerty in London would be conflict with the empty doctrine of "London is the best! LondON! LondON! LondON!" shite we've been getting for years, now. Hence a reason it doesn't happen.

Now that is a useful point.

 

[butchersapron]

In fact he has very little influence over either of these, not possessing the executive power to affect either.

Nonsense, Mallard just gave a list of the areas in which he could affect things - transport and housing being the two most obvious. Under the GLA Act the maror is responsible for housing, so there's a start.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Nonsense, Mallard just gave a list of the areas in which he could affect things - transport and housing being the two most obvious. Under the GLA Act the maror is responsible for housing, so there's a start.

Yes, except that the "either" I referred to were "poverty" and "low pay", neither or which are transport or housing.

 

[poster342002]

Now that is a useful point.

So why is so much of the cod-left happy to sing along with the "LondON! ra! ra! ra!" guff?

 

[butchersapron]

It sounds to me like a restatement of the previous "don't do this" position. Unless it can be shown, convincingly, that for the Mayor to discuss (say) the war would leave him without time to discuss (say) transport or low pay. I think it's a specious notion.

I suspect anything that anyone said would sound like that to you -esp when you make up a handy little strawman as above. The fact is, the logic of your reply is that anyone expressing their opinions on what they would like a Mayor to do that doesn't equal yours is being intolerant.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

So why is so much of the cod-left happy to sing along with the LondON! ra! ra! ra!" guff?

I don't think they are (even were there such a thing as the "cod-left") and you may need to furnish me with examples to convince me otherwise.