SWP at the Climate Camp?

[audiotech]

No need to dump the poor into the Thames. No need at all.

Oh I forget, you wish to see the 'scum named and shamed'.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Not my job to approve or disaprove such things. Besides that the Law of the land takes precedence over personal issues.

I believe the Law of the Land includes the UK's own “Consolidated EU and National Arms Export Licensing Criteria” which is supposed to assess the the impact on regional peace, security and stability and the human rights record of the recipient. Funny then that the UK has consistently sold arms to Israel given that the UN states that Israel “violates humanitarian law”.

Seeing someone who works in arms control praising Israels record considering the war crimes it has perpetrated and continues to perpitrate against Palestinians and Lebanese as well as having an arms arms industry of its own is quite sickening.

 

[Zachor]

I believe the Law of the Land includes the UK's own “Consolidated EU and National Arms Export Licensing Criteria” which is supposed to assess the the impact on regional peace, security and stability and the human rights record of the recipient. Funny then that the UK has consistently sold arms to Israel given that the UN states that Israel “violates humanitarian law”.

Seeing someone who works in arms control praising Israels record considering the war crimes it has perpetrated and continues to perpitrate against Palestinians and Lebanese as well as having an arms arms industry of its own

I think you will find that if you look at bit deeper that there are both national and EU restrictions on items likely to be used in the occupied territories.

Mind you its a lot less morally dubious shipping arms to Israel which is at least a democracy with universal sufferage than those bastions of freedom Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Pakistan.

Although I disagree with some of what the Israeli govt has done it has behaved with a lot more restraint in the face of provocation than would some other govts that I could mention such as Russia.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I think you will find that if you look at bit deeper that there are both national and EU restrictions on items likely to be used in the occupied territories.

Doesn't really work does it? The Caterpillar military bulldozer are used to destroy Palestinian homes. The helicopter and tank parts are used for assassinations and shooting down children for lobbing stones. They're not used for 1967 battle reinactment societies you know.

Mind you its a lot less morally dubious shipping arms to Israel which is at least a democracy with universal sufferage than those bastions of freedom Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Pakistan.

I sure the fact that people inside the 1967 borders can vote is a great source of confort to the families of murdered and imprisoned Palestinians.

Although I disagree with some of what the Israeli govt has done it has behaved with a lot more restraint in the face of provocation than would some other govts that I could mention such as Russia.

Try telling that to the people of Lebanon.

 

[Zachor]

Doesn't really work does it? The Caterpillar military bulldozer are used to destroy Palestinian homes. The helicopter and tank parts are used for assassinations and shooting down children for lobbing stones. They're not used for 1967 battle reinactment societies you know.




I sure the fact that people inside the 1967 borders can vote is a great source of confort to the families of murdered and imprisoned Palestinians.



Try telling that to the people of Lebanon.

I am refusing to engage with you on this issue any more. One because it is coming a bit too close to my RL world and Two because you seem to have swallowed the standard British Left line of Pals = Good and Israelis = Bad without being able to see that what we have here is a long lasting dispute which is tragic for both sides and has brought death and insecurity to both sides as well. It is not a black/white either/or situation it is far more complex than that and regurgitating the standard extreme left soundbites like you are neither informs nor improves the situation for Palestinians or Israelis.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I am refusing to engage with you on this issue any more. One because it is coming a bit too close to my RL world and Two because you seem to have swallowed the standard British Left line of Pals = Good and Israelis = Bad without being able to see that what we have here is a long lasting dispute which is tragic for both sides and has brought death and insecurity to both sides as well. It is not a black/white either/or situation it is far more complex than that and regurgitating the standard extreme left soundbites like you are neither informs nor improves the situation for Palestinians or Israelis.

What have I said that's untrue? Tell you what - when the UK starts providing the Palestinians with the amount of weapons is has to Israel and when the Palestinians use them to occupy Israel and expell two thirds of it's population and bombs and starves and blockades them I imagine I might kick up a bit of a fuss about that too.

 

[Zachor]

What have I said that's untrue? Tell you what - when the UK starts providing the Palestinians with the amount of weapons is has to Israel and when the Palestinians use them to occupy Israel and expell two thirds of it's population and bombs and starves and blockades them I imagine I might kick up a bit of a fuss about that too.

One LAST comment. The Palestinians do not yet possess a stable trustable govt let alone a state. Why should we trust them with arms? It is comparable to selling arms to basket case states like the DRC it would be wrong and irresponsible to do so. Besides that selling arms to the Palestinians would break the letter as well as the spirit of the EC and UK export control regulations which contain the clause 'goods will not be supplied where they will exacerbate regional tensions' Supplying arms to the Israelis is plainly supply for a defensive purpose whereas supplying arms to the Palestinians would be supplying them with the wherewithal to attack Israel (and they DO have form in this area like it or not) thereby upping regional tensions.

Maybe you should grow up a bit and realise that BOTH sides here are doing wrong and the best thing that all of us can do is to encourage the peacemakers.

Shalom / Salaam.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Yeah,I know

And you misquoted (v.naughty).SWSS not SWP.
How well did the "respect renewal" lot do at the freshers in Manchester then?

There's no difference between a student "member" of a socialist organisation and a fully paid up "member".


... well that was the line for the Respect conference November 2007 wasn't it - did I miss it changing?


Respect are doing very nicely in Manchester, thank you very much for asking, and doing a lot of good work in the local community with meetings, involvement in the Congestion Charge referendum, and a recent excellent local football match involving young working class kids. Students will be very welcome to join in and help us build a serious election force among the working class people of the city. I presume SWSS or whatever it's called this week will look to do likewise.

 

[dennisr]

There's no difference between a student "member" of a socialist organisation and a fully paid up "member".
... well that was the line for the Respect conference November 2007 wasn't it - did I miss it changing?

'hoisted by his own petard' (is that the phrase?...)

 

[Fisher_Gate]

'hoisted by his own petard' (is that the phrase?...)

Yep. Fell into the trap, 'hook, line and sinker' as I knew they would (that's a mixed metaphor by the way)

 

[osterberg]

Fishy,not sure what you're on about but I'm glad to hear about the faux-respect's social work in Manchester.

However on the recent Stop the War demo in Manchester all I saw of that lot were about half a dozen elderly men hugging the "respect" newspaper to themselves like comfort blankets making no attempt to sell it.You know,like actually asking people to buy it. Instead they were wandering around aimlessly.
Going nowhere, a bit like their organisation.

Oh and I take it from your answer , "respect" couldn't get its act together to cover Manchester freshers fair.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Fishy,not sure what you're on about but I'm glad to hear about the faux-respect's social work in Manchester.

However on the recent Stop the War demo in Manchester all I saw of that lot were about half a dozen elderly men hugging the "respect" newspaper to themselves like comfort blankets making no attempt to sell it.You know,like actually asking people to buy it. Instead they were wandering around aimlessly.
Going nowhere, a bit like their organisation.

Oh and I take it from your answer , "respect" couldn't get its act together to cover Manchester freshers fair.

Well you obviously weren't paying attention last year, when that nasty George Galloway and his acolytes launched an unprovoked witchhunt of students by saying they should not be counted as members unless they had done the outrageous and actually joined, and that they should therefore be excluded from the Respect conference. Fortunately sensible people saw through this subterfuge and the students were victorious in their resistance to establish their right to representation exactly as if they were members.

And today the proof of the pudding is in the eating, because Student Respect is going from strength to strength as a highly visible force on campuses across the country while Galloway has to hold his public meetings in a phone box because no one turns up.

As for "social work", maybe Manchester Respect have been taking a lesson out of Councillor Michael Lavalette's book up the road in Preston. Last March shortly before his re-election he organised for students in his ward to help him "clean up" the streets by tidying away the rubbish. Sadly the pictures depicting this heroic effort on behalf of those wishing to do council workers jobs for them has been removed from the internet by some unfortunate accident with the his fanzine, sorry website. Never mind, we still have the memory.

 

[Al Kahul]

Robinson _ I am not a zionist and I am not Zachor .for fucks sake get it right .