Switzerland v England - Euro 2016 qualifying campaign

[tommers]

I've put the flags back on the car and off to the tattooist later.

we're gonna win the 2016 world cup!

 

[Wilf]

I've put the flags back on the car and off to the tattooist later.

we're gonna win the 2016 world cup!

I've already got a gurning Phil Jones on me arse.

 

[ericjarvis]

I've already got a gurning Phil Jones on me arse.

We've all had that problem.

 

[William of Walworth]

Well I said at the time that they could've got something out of both those games too without it being much of an injustice.

The change of generation seems to have generated different problems to the last lot. Instead of being static off the ball and constantly conceding possession, this lot keep the ball quite well but seem to lack composure in/around goal. The defence did okay, I don't think it's realistic to go away to good teams and them not to even have a sniff.

Bolded bit : If they can sustain that (big if, obvs, etc etc) that'd be a big move in the right direction I'd say. Finishing and composure near goal can be added to possession/ballkeeping ... admittedly England have far too --ahem -- 'unchallenging' a group for these qualifiers to be real test though.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Bolded bit : If they can sustain that (big if, obvs, etc etc) that'd be a big move in the right direction I'd say. Finishing and composure near goal can be added to possession/ballkeeping ... admittedly England have far too --ahem -- 'unchallenging' a group for these qualifiers to be real test though.

Not sure about that one anymore. Fair few teams these days don't give a shit about whether they have the ball. Atletico Madrid for one...

 

[miktheword]

Must admit, Switzerland didn't look like 9th best in the world. But yeah, can't complain and maybe we are all finally getting realistic expectations of England. In that context, a good result.

don't start me on FIFA rankings! lol. haven't read the 'England over ranked' thread since I promised to do the work on the stats (haven't done it yet) but Switzerland definitely backed up FIFA's 6th (?) pre world cup ranking.

reason for posting is that just seen pelligini agrees with something I mentioned earlier...that previous seeds, no matter how average..get easier seeding. Example of Champs league I used earlier, and I think it applies to England too.


http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/13/manuel-pellegrini-manchester-city-uefa-seedings

“I don’t think it is right that the teams who play a qualification round because they finish fourth in their league [such as Arsenal] are in pot one, where the strongest teams should be. In our group we have the champions of Germany, England and Russia, so it seems a bit unbalanced. I would like to see teams who play qualification go in pot four, and all the champions of their respective leagues in pot one. I think that the champions of England and the champions of Germany deserve to be in pot one. The two leagues are among the best in Europe and the champions should not have to keep playing each other straight away.” Uefa is reported to be considering a new seeding system along similar lines.

 

[Fez909]

don't start me on FIFA rankings! lol. haven't read the 'England over ranked' thread since I promised to do the work on the stats (haven't done it yet) but Switzerland definitely backed up FIFA's 6th (?) pre world cup ranking.

reason for posting is that just seen pelligini agrees with something I mentioned earlier...that previous seeds, no matter how average..get easier seeding. Example of Champs league I used earlier, and I think it applies to England too.


http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/13/manuel-pellegrini-manchester-city-uefa-seedings

“I don’t think it is right that the teams who play a qualification round because they finish fourth in their league [such as Arsenal] are in pot one, where the strongest teams should be. In our group we have the champions of Germany, England and Russia, so it seems a bit unbalanced. I would like to see teams who play qualification go in pot four, and all the champions of their respective leagues in pot one. I think that the champions of England and the champions of Germany deserve to be in pot one. The two leagues are among the best in Europe and the champions should not have to keep playing each other straight away.” Uefa is reported to be considering a new seeding system along similar lines.

Teams who finish 4th are likely stronger than a great deal of the national champions. Not all leagues have the same difficulty.

 

[miktheword]

Teams who finish 4th are likely stronger than a great deal of the national champions. Not all leagues have the same difficulty.

agreed, but he makes the point I did; once there, even if you become average, your previous ranking and coefficient, helps you to get top pot seeding.. and hence even if you get knocked out at 16 stage , you get top seeding again. In that way, some clubs within same league (or some countries in same national European groups) are given ranking above their actual rating (England and Arsenal both get easy groupings, qualify , enhancing ranking, but nearly always get found out at quarter finals, when first meeting any quality.

 

[Lo Siento.]

don't start me on FIFA rankings! lol. haven't read the 'England over ranked' thread since I promised to do the work on the stats (haven't done it yet) but Switzerland definitely backed up FIFA's 6th (?) pre world cup ranking.

reason for posting is that just seen pelligini agrees with something I mentioned earlier...that previous seeds, no matter how average..get easier seeding. Example of Champs league I used earlier, and I think it applies to England too.


http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/13/manuel-pellegrini-manchester-city-uefa-seedings

“I don’t think it is right that the teams who play a qualification round because they finish fourth in their league [such as Arsenal] are in pot one, where the strongest teams should be. In our group we have the champions of Germany, England and Russia, so it seems a bit unbalanced. I would like to see teams who play qualification go in pot four, and all the champions of their respective leagues in pot one. I think that the champions of England and the champions of Germany deserve to be in pot one. The two leagues are among the best in Europe and the champions should not have to keep playing each other straight away.” Uefa is reported to be considering a new seeding system along similar lines.

Hey. I thought you said that England weren't good enough to beat teams of the quality of Sweden, Ireland, Denmark etc.?

Or maybe the rankings have been rigged in their favour too?

 

[Lo Siento.]

agreed, but he makes the point I did; once there, even if you become average, your previous ranking and coefficient, helps you to get top pot seeding.. and hence even if you get knocked out at 16 stage , you get top seeding again. In that way, some clubs within same league (or some countries in same national European groups) are given ranking above their actual rating (England and Arsenal both get easy groupings, qualify , enhancing ranking, but nearly always get found out at quarter finals, when first meeting any quality.

The Champions League rankings system has a slight bias against teams that improve very quickly without previously having much European experience. That said if Manchester City had treated the Europa League seriously a few seasons back (like Atleti did, for instance) they'd now be a top seed.

1 Real Madrid CF ESP 33.642 36.171 29.542 39.600 4.642 143.599
2 FC Barcelona ESP 36.642 34.171 27.542 28.600 4.642 131.599
3 FC Bayern MünchenGER 24.133 33.050 36.585 29.942 4.600 128.311
4 Chelsea FC ENG 26.671 33.050 30.285 28.357 4.628 122.992
5 SL Benfica POR 25.760 23.366 28.350 30.983 4.550 113.009
6 Manchester United FC ENG 36.671 16.050 21.285 26.357 0.628 100.992
7 Club Atlético de Madrid ESP 9.642 34.171 13.542 37.600 4.642 99.599
8 Valencia CF ESP 21.642 25.171 22.542 26.600 0.642 96.599
9 FC Schalke 04 GER 30.133 20.050 22.585 18.942 4.600 96.311
10 Arsenal FC ENG 22.671 22.050 21.285 21.357 4.628 91.992
11 FC PortoPOR 31.760 12.366 22.350 17.983 4.550 89.009
12 Borussia Dortmund GER 10.133 10.050 33.585 24.942 4.600 83.311
13 Paris Saint-Germain FRA 14.150 9.100 27.350 26.700 4.450 81.750
14 AC Milan ITA 18.314 22.271 19.883 18.833 0.466 79.768
15 FC Zenit RUS 18.183 19.950 14.950 18.083 4.666 75.833
16 Manchester City FC ENG 16.671 20.050 10.285 22.357 4.628 73.992

In terms of Arsenal's mediocrity... well... arguably the CL seeding criteria actually discriminates against teams of exactly their standing, in favour of teams bad enough to find themselves in the Europa League.

Look at Valencia. 2011-12 not good enough to make it out of the group stages, they outscore Arsenal by dropping down to the EL and making the semis. 2013-14 they outscore Arsenal again, this time by failing to qualify for the CL and again making the semis of a lesser competition.