Spion
I hear ya
The SP only got as deep as they did by avoiding some hard arguments over the BJ4BW thing.
The SP and the SWP are both opportunists. They just choose different ways of bandwagon jumping
Swappies: what's the point?
- Thread starter AnnO'Neemus
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The SP and the SWP are both opportunists. They just choose different ways of bandwagon jumping
editor
hiraethified
I did it. You want people to find your thread, don't you?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
yeah that's getting into 'lefty politics are just a lifestyle choice' bollocks. It's a popular view amongst people who bang on about realpolitik and working within the system.
Sorry capital has written off an entire generation, but hey!! those who object are lifestyle lefties and we can safely ignore them. Backslaps all round.
CyberRose
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It would appear I've hit a nerve, perhaps I was closer than I gave myself credit for!
Spion
I hear ya
No. You just parroted a crass cliche.
CyberRose
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No truth in it then?
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Judging by the people I've worked with, from a variety of politicial persuasions including Swappies, I'd say there's very little truth in it. By far the majority of people I've worked with see it as an important commitment and take it seriously, not just as some jolly jape to be laughed at and mucked about with until they get bored.
Sadly, there's a bigger grain of truth in saying that, for a minority of activists, it's a means up the political career ladder by entering as a so-called 'angry young man/woman' and using that to lever themselves into an Establishment position of some sort. I don't have any time for the hobbyist types, but it's the careerists that worry me more, to be honest.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
No, just the tired bollocks spouted by rightists. The idea that political conviction is a lifestyle choice is complete shit tbh. Those spouting such nonsense are surely shallow thinkers wrt political struggle.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Not really, no.
CyberRose
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Wow a liberal and a rightist in the same day!
CyberRose
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Ok, as persons who have experience with the SWP, can you tell me if they actually genuinely believe they will achieve their aims through the methods they currently use?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Did I call you a rightist? or did I point out your using of the lazy arguement spouted by rightists?
Have a think on it.
CyberRose
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I'd hardly call it an argument, would you?!
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
What, all of them?
I've never met a single solitary person who said "yeah actually I'm just a member of this party to fill a few boring Sundays". Neither have you, you're just repeating a cliché.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
I'm sure they do, there must be some level of belief otherwise they wouldn't push their agenda so hard (and often to the detriment of other campaign groups). The new members are full of vim and vigour (although they tend to lose both as time wears on) and the old guard tend to still be in it (sometimes on belief alone, seemingly) and be playing the long game.
They believe in what they do, otherwise they wouldn't still be doing it.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
an accusation, a cliche, a lazy stereotype. Take your pick.
Either way, you've looked a bit of a prick wrt the post we are discussing.
CyberRose
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Think you misread the post...
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Especially stop the war
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Think you misread the response...
CyberRose
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No, I'm telling you you misread the post (judging by your answer at least)
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I'm telling you you misread the response.
CyberRose
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Issue?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
It's okay, I don't mind, I know you don't care.
JHE
.
Let's lop off the last bit, since if you asked some Social Workers they would almost certainly point out that methods change with circumstances, that their 'party' is very flexible in changing its ways of doing things (which is true, sort of) and obviously circumstances are not going to remain the same between now and the triumph of world proletarian socialist revolution under the tutelage of the Social Workers and their foreign subsidiaries in the IST. (The IST is the Social Workers' Micro-International, from which people who don't accept the line from London are expelled amid much acrimony).
Your question then becomes: Do the members of this particular Church of Latter Day Bolsheviks really believe they can succeed?
Many do, of course - just as many Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the Second Coming. Others, IME, once you get to know them, don't really or aren't sure. Some take the view that it's gotta be worth a try. (A great many give up trying and leave. The Social Workers are notorious for their high turnover of members.)
I'm not sure whether rival sects, like the SP, are different in that respect. My guess is that they are not.
People in sects do often retain some ability to spout the line long after they have lost the faith, though.
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Which account?
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
so why did the membership numbers go down?
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
so why did the membership numbers go down?
the numbers entering this nefandous organisation are exceeded by the deluge of departures?
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
Why, if the previous poster theory is true?
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