Support the Barristers' Strike
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Autonomous
Rise Above
Granted, it's difficult to feel sorry for them when you see £60,000 cheques being dished out for 6 week trials but, and I'm not totally up on this, from what I gather these cuts are going to hurt when it comes to short hearings. Is that right? So that means if, say, you need to collar yourself a dock brief for something or other there's less incentive for someone to take it?
If you want to talk about money being wasted, have you seen how much interpreters get paid? £28 and hour at the Crown with a minimum of 3 hours to be paid (even if it's a 10 minute) hearing. I understand it's more at the Mags. Some of them are safe and I'm sure they're all good at their job but a lot of the time they sit in the dock and do nothing, literally nothing, because the defendant speaks English just fine but needs a translator for the 'jargon'. I can definitely see how someone would feel safer and more informed having a speaker of their first language there to assist but that money to clarify a couple of words?! Plus, everything that goes on in court is spelt out for the benefit of the jury, witnesses and the defendant. All this means that at a lot of short hearings, interpreters are getting paid more than Counsel.
Does anyone know what happened in that Arson Trial that - apparently - was in the Times last week sometime? I heard a case got chucked out, can't remember where, because the Crown couldn't get Counsel and the Judge wouldn't adjourn. Apparently the paper made out it was all down to the strike but it struck me there must be more to it - weak Prosecution case to begin with or something. Could be any manner of things but I'm sure if it was just representation any Judge would have at least just bailed the bloke and adjourned the Trial.
If we're going to go into barristers' characters, I've generally found them to be a fun, decent lot. There are a handful of assholes as there are in any profession where reputation and pomp are involved but generally they're a pleasure to work with and have an excellent relationship with the poor Court staff. And j26 makes a good point about the work it takes to get there.
If you want to talk about money being wasted, have you seen how much interpreters get paid? £28 and hour at the Crown with a minimum of 3 hours to be paid (even if it's a 10 minute) hearing. I understand it's more at the Mags. Some of them are safe and I'm sure they're all good at their job but a lot of the time they sit in the dock and do nothing, literally nothing, because the defendant speaks English just fine but needs a translator for the 'jargon'. I can definitely see how someone would feel safer and more informed having a speaker of their first language there to assist but that money to clarify a couple of words?! Plus, everything that goes on in court is spelt out for the benefit of the jury, witnesses and the defendant. All this means that at a lot of short hearings, interpreters are getting paid more than Counsel.
Does anyone know what happened in that Arson Trial that - apparently - was in the Times last week sometime? I heard a case got chucked out, can't remember where, because the Crown couldn't get Counsel and the Judge wouldn't adjourn. Apparently the paper made out it was all down to the strike but it struck me there must be more to it - weak Prosecution case to begin with or something. Could be any manner of things but I'm sure if it was just representation any Judge would have at least just bailed the bloke and adjourned the Trial.
If we're going to go into barristers' characters, I've generally found them to be a fun, decent lot. There are a handful of assholes as there are in any profession where reputation and pomp are involved but generally they're a pleasure to work with and have an excellent relationship with the poor Court staff. And j26 makes a good point about the work it takes to get there.
Uncle Noah
New Member
Full Student Loan Bars Legal Aid in Crest Nicholson Houseboat Eviction
In our situation of being evicted from our own home, at a time when my wife was training to be a teacher, doing her degree, and in receipt of a A FULL STUDENT LOAN, we naturally applied for legal assistance. To put it bluntly, we were told, no you get no get help 'cause you 'earn to much'.
Money borrowed is treated as earnings. What a load of bollocks! All of this money has to paid back, which effectively means that poorer people do no have equal access to the law and in our case get shafted.
Not sure I would "Fuck'em", but something needs looking at somewhere!
Uncle Noah
Chuck Wilson said:
In our situation of being evicted from our own home, at a time when my wife was training to be a teacher, doing her degree, and in receipt of a A FULL STUDENT LOAN, we naturally applied for legal assistance. To put it bluntly, we were told, no you get no get help 'cause you 'earn to much'.
Money borrowed is treated as earnings. What a load of bollocks! All of this money has to paid back, which effectively means that poorer people do no have equal access to the law and in our case get shafted.
Not sure I would "Fuck'em", but something needs looking at somewhere!
Uncle Noah
laptop said:
What ever, its unlikely this profession will be ever out of the domain of out of touch posh people. The entire legal system is set up to defend and mainatin out of touch rich people.
The only solution is to burn dwon the entire judiciary and torture those who support it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Have you a problem with the suggestion? Care to say what? Care to offer something in it's place? Backed up by on-line sources of course,.
Yes.butchersapron said:
It violates human rights and doesn't provide an alternative system of justice.
Keeping the current court system, with some reforms.
Online sources to back this up? Look at these and you will see plenty to back up the above:
http://www.dca.gov.uk/index.htm
http://www.amnesty.org/
http://www.liberty.co.uk/
How is this strike going? I haven't seen any QCs at our local trades council recently, and I am wondering if my decision to ask for spare cans of tin food to be donated so that they can be shipped to those barrister communities suffering the geratest hardship was not a bit premature.
nogoodboyo
New Member
Is every thread in this forum a class war discussion?
Deport them all (approx 10,000) to Barbados/bemuda.
As for Chucks 'Fuck'em' ...no way thats too good for them.
For a revolution to really happen......kill all the barristers ....revolutions are bloody but if the barristers were killed one dark night....the next day...well the 'bum buddies' would have had the central nervous system ripped out....... then think of a new NON ADVERSAL system.
Barristers breed with barristers. Barristers RETIRE YOUNG as they earn so much. Only fanatics grow up to be Judges.
And as for female barristers...." Slags of steel that think they are equal........end up as a sequal "
And I can count some dedicated, socialist barristers on my one hand who do defend the oppressed........for free ...or with a bit of legal aid.
Barristers will PROFIT from longer licensing hours, Terrorist laws, etc.....they will be laughing all the way to the bank...........they are known to be very GREEDY - T.B and Cherie being prime examples as they grap whatever perk, jewels, hols they can.
As for Chucks 'Fuck'em' ...no way thats too good for them.
For a revolution to really happen......kill all the barristers ....revolutions are bloody but if the barristers were killed one dark night....the next day...well the 'bum buddies' would have had the central nervous system ripped out....... then think of a new NON ADVERSAL system.
Barristers breed with barristers. Barristers RETIRE YOUNG as they earn so much. Only fanatics grow up to be Judges.
And as for female barristers...." Slags of steel that think they are equal........end up as a sequal "
And I can count some dedicated, socialist barristers on my one hand who do defend the oppressed........for free ...or with a bit of legal aid.
Barristers will PROFIT from longer licensing hours, Terrorist laws, etc.....they will be laughing all the way to the bank...........they are known to be very GREEDY - T.B and Cherie being prime examples as they grap whatever perk, jewels, hols they can.
Depending on how serious the case is a Barrister can get between £80 - £100 per hour on Legal Aid. Murder cases often attract that.
Unfortunately, a barrister cannot claim Travel or Waiting time in the serious cases on Legal Aid.
The time i feel sorry for barristers (not often )is when they are doing a bog standard Theft / shoplifting case where they have to agree a fee with the Solicitors.
They might get £50 for a days work if they are lucky.
Unfortunately, a barrister cannot claim Travel or Waiting time in the serious cases on Legal Aid.
The time i feel sorry for barristers (not often
)is when they are doing a bog standard Theft / shoplifting case where they have to agree a fee with the Solicitors. They might get £50 for a days work if they are lucky.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
and would appear to have even less clue about it...Batboy said:
the strike is about Legal Aid not what barresters are paid...
Why anyone in their right mind would happliy trot behind the tories and say we need a cut in legal aid to prevent suprious cases when the cps is swallowing huge amounts of cash for spurious cases and bookeeping number crunching whilst allowing really important cases to fold on imbecilic technicalities is totally beyond me...
oh but the posh nobs are doing the defending not the workign class ...
support your access to the legal system or end up in serfdom again.... simply choice really... if you spent more than one brain cell thinking about it..
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
The sole reason why there is such a problem with the legal aid budget right now is that their own colleagues have consistently abused the system in order to enrich themselves - most notably by removing the means test (which is one of those things that reform is meant to bring back) and letting the likes of El Haji Diouf get legal aid, despite his earning £40000 a week... leading to the top 12 QC's getting between them £9 million for last year.
Now there is not enough money for everyone to "make a decent living", they complain because they are paid as much as a teacher or senior nurse. The scandal!
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
GarfieldLeChat said:and would appear to have even less clue about it...
the strike is about Legal Aid not what barresters are paid...
Why anyone in their right mind would happliy trot behind the tories and say we need a cut in legal aid to prevent suprious cases when the cps is swallowing huge amounts of cash for spurious cases and bookeeping number crunching whilst allowing really important cases to fold on imbecilic technicalities is totally beyond me...
oh but the posh nobs are doing the defending not the workign class ...
support your access to the legal system or end up in serfdom again.... simply choice really... if you spent more than one brain cell thinking about it..
I agree about the CPS, who seem to have got even worse now that they are required to be consulted about almost every non-guilty non-traffic charge before charging. Maybe its a fault with the profession.
Hoxtontwat
New Member
tobyjug said:
A floating Gin Palace?
Hoxtontwat
New Member
Wow, that is so cool 
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
Just for information. There are employed barristers in the civil service, who are also trained in the civil service, so the earlier post about needing a rich mummy and daddy doesn't apply, either....marty21 said:
Batboy
Trumpeting is good for you...
GarfieldLeChat said:and would appear to have even less clue about it...
the strike is about Legal Aid not what barresters are paid...
Why anyone in their right mind would happliy trot behind the tories and say we need a cut in legal aid to prevent suprious cases when the cps is swallowing huge amounts of cash for spurious cases and bookeeping number crunching whilst allowing really important cases to fold on imbecilic technicalities is totally beyond me...
oh but the posh nobs are doing the defending not the workign class ...
support your access to the legal system or end up in serfdom again.... simply choice really... if you spent more than one brain cell thinking about it..
I don't think there should be cuts in legal aid but I do believe there is a huge problem within our legal 'system esp concerning the outrageous costs that these porkies charge and I do think the legal aid system needs shaking up.
And you are right about the CPS they need a good hoovering out for the way they operate.
Some guys I know who were on one of the F4J protests were prosecuted in a crown court with jury on various charges including conspiracy to endanger road users (A charge that incidentally carries a max sentence of life imprisonment)
The first case coollapsed when the Jury could not reach a verdict.
The CPS against the judges wishes insisted on a retrial. At the start of the trial and behind closed doors a deal was offered for the accussed to be bound over or something and walk away, The police agreed to it the juddge reccomended it and the accused accepted it -The CPS did not want to know
So the retrial went ahead.
And at the retrial the accused were found not guilty by the Jury and cleared of all charges.
These guys had climbed on a road gantry for protest reasons. The effort that when into prosecute them was phenomenal and so obviously politically motivated.
The cost of this little political folly of the CPS - almost a million pounds.
I wonder how many times this has happened?
Autonomous
Rise Above
Batboy said:
Too many! There are some CPS Lawyers who just won't let things go. I've even seen them prosecute informants for "intent" i.e. intending to commit crime before bottling out and turning Queen's Evidence. The other waste of time is cases with hostiles witnesses,which should be a no-brainer; if the star witness drops their complaint, there is no case to answer. I'm not even talking about cases with witnesses who have been intimidated, which might be worth struggling on with. I mean instances where, for example, a complainant forgives a mate for a drunken punch or something.
Obviously, Judges get pretty pissed off when they're presented with a case that everyone but the reviewing Lawyer can see is nonsense and the cases get chucked out but still - and they wonder why people don't trust them!
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