Support for Scottish Independence "hardens"

[Fedayn]

And why am I not surprised you're doing the job of nationalists again

Now, beard stroker, where have I said I support the demand. Be a good lad, show me where i've intimated any support? I've never been convinced that a Scottish boss is de facto better thasn a British boss. But hey, I only live in the country but I won't be spouting purist communiques to the unwashed masses like you.

My attitude is that Scotland, Wales can have independence if they want it but I'll be fucked if I'm going to go round advocating it unless the mass of people have already decided to go down that road

Aaah, waiting until people have decided then adopting the popular approach eh?

 

[danny la rouge]

And why am I not surprised you're doing the job of nationalists again

My attitude is that Scotland, Wales can have independence if they want it but I'll be fucked if I'm going to go round advocating it unless the mass of people have already decided to go down that road

I'm assuming you're not in Scotland or Wales?

What is your position on the Scottish MPs who have no influence over issue such as health, education, agriculture, fisheries and forestry, economic development, environment, food standards, home affairs, Scots law, police and fire services, local government, sport and the arts, transport, training, tourism, and social work in their own constituencies, but can vote on those issues as they affect England safe in the knowledge that their own back yard is safe from their cock-ups?

I'm not in England, but I think that's unsustainable. Should we say nothing, though?

 

[danny la rouge]

Why? What will be so much better about the states that replace it?

Well, see the post above for starters.

 

[Spion]

And then you will advocate it?

If it's a foregone conclusion that independence is imminent I'd say the time would be right to frame calls for workers MPs, for workplace and community councils as, say, an independent workers Scotland, for eg.

The class demands are always the most important to fight for. I didn't think I'd have to say that to you

 

[lewislewis]

Why? What will be so much better about the states that replace it?

Proportional representation for starters.

 

[Fedayn]

If it's a foregone conclusion that independence is imminent I'd say the time would be right to frame calls for workers MPs,

Some of us have argued for, fought for and won workers MP's on workers wages for 25 years, do try and keep up.

 

[danny la rouge]

If it's a foregone conclusion that independence is imminent I'd say the time would be right to frame calls for workers MPs, for workplace and community councils as, say, an independent workers Scotland, for eg.

The class demands are always the most important to fight for. I didn't think I'd have to say that to you

What will be the signs that the time is right to call for that?

Personally, I think the time is before the SNP frames their referendum questions.

 

[newbie]

And advocating the continuation of the UK as a unitary state is essentially a nationalist position.

from where I sit it's a pragmatic question of whether England is to be one party Conservative ruled. It's not necessary to endorse NuLab to find that a fairly horrifying prospect.

 

[lewislewis]

from where I sit it's a pragmatic question of whether England is to be one party Conservative ruled. It's not necessary to endorse NuLab to find that a fairly horrifying prospect.

I agree, but the same state of affairs condemns Wales & Scotland to governments they haven't voted for.

Also it shouldn't be a foregone conclusion that the Tories will always rule in England. If the Tories are going to reign forever in England we may as well give up now, especially as I support open borders and don't want a Tory regime next door!

 

[newbie]

I agree, but the same state of affairs condemns Wales & Scotland to governments they haven't voted for.

I, in turn, agree but I'm afraid I'm applying self interest here

 

[Spion]

What will be the signs that the time is right to call for that?

Personally, I think the time is before the SNP frames their referendum questions.

When is that going to happen?

It's a judgement call isn't it. It'd be senseless for socialists to call for independence if the population wasn't arsed and it's a case of assessing whether the time is right to preempt the nationalists on it.

 

[danny la rouge]

When is that going to happen?

Salmond announced on coming to power that he planned an independence referendum for 2010. That's next year.

 

[Spion]

Salmond announced on coming to power that he planned an independence referendum for 2010. That's next year.

If I read your OP correctly he wouldn't win it on that poll's results, no?

 

[danny la rouge]

If I read your OP correctly he wouldn't win it on that poll's results, no?

38% to 40%. So, you'll take no position until 'Yes' polls another 2%?

 

[In Bloom]

And advocating the continuation of the UK as a unitary state is essentially a nationalist position.

Who's doing that?

 

[danny la rouge]

Who's doing that?

The Tories and Labour, primarily.

 

[Spion]

38% to 40%. So, you'll take no position until 'Yes' polls another 2%?

I'm not saying anything. I'm asking you questions. If you're saying there's an imminent danger of the nats getting their way then I'll have to defer to your judgement

I'd probably have to see more than one poll to be really convinced tho

 

[In Bloom]

The Tories and Labour, primarily.

So nobody on here then?

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm not saying anything. I'm asking you questions. If you're saying there's an imminent danger of the nats getting their way then I'll have to defer to your judgement

I'd probably have to see more than one poll to be really convinced tho

Well, I advocate independence as more than just a reaction to the SNP getting their way. I think the British state is long overdue a break up; I think that the current asymmetric devolution is unsustainable; I think that smaller units are more manageable when it comes to pressing forward the case for real community control; and I think that there is a good chance that Scottish independence isn't far off.

What is your view on the West Lothian Question, as outlined in post 32?

 

[danny la rouge]

So nobody on here then?

Well, hard to say.

 

[Wolveryeti]

I don't blame the Scots for wanting to distance themselves from the shower of cunts that is our government.

Good luck to 'em.

 

[dylanredefined]

So Gordons being exiled is he? cheers for that .Cant see how it would help the average citizen .Lots of jobs for polticos though.

 

[danny la rouge]

Lots of jobs for polticos though.

Well, we currently double up with a layer of MSPs and a layer of MPs. Independence would get rid of one layer.

 

[dylanredefined]

Well, we currently double up with a layer of MSPs and a layer of MPs. Independence would get rid of one layer.

Yes but then you need people to do all the jobs that were done at westminster not to mention the squabbling over shared stuff.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yes but then you need people to do all the jobs that were done at westminster

What, voting on English matters?

 

[Spion]

What is your view on the West Lothian Question, as outlined in post 32?

I've not tended to give it much thought as the only times I've been presented with it I've usually been more concerned about cleaning off the spittle of the red-faced anti-Scottish English nationalists who have been ranting on about it.

Personally I'm happy for Scots MPs to vote in the British parliament but that's not a political position. I'll have a think about it.

 

[danny la rouge]

Personally I'm happy for Scots MPs to vote in the British parliament but that's not a political position.

Well, sure, but that's not the issue. My MP, Anne McGuire, has supported Health Service 'reform' in England that won't happen in her constituency. Roll that out over all the affairs she has no control over in Stirling, but can affect for you.

 

[newbie]

Well, sure, but that's not the issue. My MP, Anne McGuire, has supported Health Service 'reform' in England that won't happen in her constituency. Roll that out over all the affairs she has no control over in Stirling, but can affect for you.

we know, and by and large we don't care

what'll happen is that this will rumble on for years or decades boring everyone to death until something actually happens which people do care about and the whole thing will suddenly go into sharp focus and decisions will be made based on the real balance of forces just then.

As we can't predict what that trigger will be, nor when it will happen, there's virtually no point in caring now, and anyone who does is essentially wasting their time unless they're a self-serving politician, either SNP or their direct opponents.

 

[N_igma]

Good, the Union must be destroyed.

 

[TomPaine]

I've not tended to give it much thought as the only times I've been presented with it I've usually been more concerned about cleaning off the spittle of the red-faced anti-Scottish English nationalists who have been ranting on about it.

I support the break up of the Union, and support and a seperate English state. The WLQ is in my opinion an important issue that has been neglected. As was the situation with tuition fees etc.

I do feel sorry for the Scots though, should the Union break, can you imagine having to put up with Brown moving back and his Westminster buddies .