Supermarket Dominance

[dash_two]

I'm only coming across as a big fan of supermarkets because I feel the need to counter the usual crap that people speak on these types of lists about how great small shops are.

A lot of small shops are crap and as for family-run businesses, well I've worked for two and IME there's a world of difference between how family members and non-family members are treated.

But most greengrocers and virtually all market stalls I've come across have been husband-and-wife efforts or otherwise keep it in entirely in the family. They are very small enterprises indeed.

 

[Simon B]

Really? And how does this relate to the small grocers and greengrocers that you've been castigating? How about some evidence to back this assertion up?

It's not an assertion. I suppose I might trawl through the health and safety legislation sometime over the next few days if you really insist on a link.
The point is not whether small or large companies are subjectively nicer, but that the law is much tighter on employers who employ more than about 20 people.

 

[tarannau]

Yes, if you want to buy huge amounts that go rotten in 5 minutes.
Supermarket let me buy as little as I like and charge me according to the weight for much fresher food. The local market and greencrocers aren't impressed if I tell them I want one small onion, one carrot and five button mushrooms for example.

Local shops cheaper for tinned stuff? Fuck knows where you live.

Brixton. Let me give you an example - can of mixed gungo beans from local shop 50p, can from supermarket 79p. Can of thick coconut milk - 50p, from Tesco's Amoy brand thinness at 69p. Bag of Tilda Basmati 2kg £4, Tescos £5. 1 pound of lychees from market £1-£1.50, 8 or so lychees in prepackaged bag from Waitrose £1.50+, small bag of pak choi from supermarket nigh on £2, from oriental store £1 a big bag.

It's a miracle how those litle shops can achieve better economies of scale and lower prices than tesco isn't it?

 

[nino_savatte]

It's not an assertion. I suppose I might trawl through the health and safety legislation sometime over the next few days if you really insist on a link.
The point is not whether small or large companies are subjectively nicer, but that the law is much tighter on employers who employ more than about 20 people.

I think you'll find that any business premises - and that includes small retailers - have to adhere to the same standards as everyone else. They are subject to the exact same H&S regs and will also have employer's liability insurance - it's the law.

As for union activity in small shops: that is a red herring.

 

[Simon B]

Brixton. Let me give you an example - can of mixed gungo beans from local shop 50p, can from supermarket 79p. Can of thick coconut milk - 50p, from Tesco's Amoy brand thinness at 69p. Bag of Tilda Basmati 2kg £4, Tescos £5. 1 pound of lychees from market £1-£1.50, 8 or so lychees in prepackaged bag from Waitrose £1.50+, small bag of pak choi from supermarket nigh on £2, from oriental store £1 a big bag.

It's a miracle how those litle shops can achieve better economies of scale and lower prices than tesco isn't it?

How much is a bag of Tesco Value Basmati rice?
I've just eaten a 5p bag of crisps from Sainsbury's.

Fruit and veg is cheaper from a greengrocer if you want to buy lots and eat it within a couple of days of buying it.

 

[Spandex]

Often in threads about supermarkets, this one being no exception, it all decends into a debate about small shops vs supermarkets and the relative price of onions.

My problem with the big supermarkets, however, isn't about how good they are or not, or whether it is nicer to go to a small shop rather than a big soul-less warehouse shop. I've got no problem with people shopping at supermarkets, and yes they can be convienient, and yes at least they are normally unionised (much to ASDA/Walmarts dislike).

But... my problem, which as I read it is the main point of the article in the OP, is the astounding amount of power that the big supermarkets wield. I find it unhealthy in society that a private, profit making company should have more wealth and power than a small country and can hold it's own against national governments, let alone local councils who don't face a chance in a planning battle when faced with the bottomless purses of a Tesco or an ASDA. And remember the big supermarkets aren't just food retailers any more, it is getting into any sector that it can think of: stationary, clothes, books, music, insurance, pharmacies, petrol garages -isn't there talk of doctors surgeries and voting booths too?

Okay, this problem is about modern global capitalist society and applies just as much to News International's power in the media world, but dismissing these problems with 'but they sell cheap garlic' overlooks a complicated problem in modern society that doesn't benefit from being discussed in a black and white, good vs bad way.

 

[dash_two]

I've still got carrots, chilli peppers, courgettes, potatoes and satsumas in my fridge from last week's shop at Lewisham market. They looked alright to me last night.

 

[_angel_]

Have you not got a local greengrocer? I bet it's cheaper than Asda.

No local greengrocers around here at all. The Leeds Market however isn't really noticeably cheaper than ASDA though.

 

[nino_savatte]

Often in threads about supermarkets, this one being no exception, it all decends into a debate about small shops vs supermarkets and the relative price of onions.

My problem with the big supermarkets, however, isn't about how good they are or not, or whether it is nicer to go to a small shop rather than a big soul-less warehouse shop. I've got no problem with people shopping at supermarkets, and yes they can be convienient, and yes at least they are normally unionised (much to ASDA/Walmarts dislike).

But... my problem, which as I read it is the main point of the article in the OP, is the astounding amount of power that the big supermarkets wield. I find it unhealthy in society that a private, profit making company should have more wealth and power than a small country and can hold it's own against national governments, let alone local councils who don't face a chance in a planning battle when faced with the bottomless purses of a Tesco or an ASDA. And remember the big supermarkets aren't just food retailers any more, it is getting into any sector that it can think of: stationary, clothes, books, music, insurance, pharmacies, petrol garages -isn't there talk of doctors surgeries and voting booths too?

Okay, this problem is about modern global capitalist society and applies just as much to News International's power in the media world, but dismissing these problems with 'but they sell cheap garlic' overlooks a complicated problem in modern society that doesn't benefit from being discussed in a black and white, good vs bad way.

This all fits in with the myth of choice that supermarkets claim to offer shoppers. The simple truth is that you can only want what is available. The supermarkets can name their own buying price for produce that they purchase from a supplier, thus crippling smaller producers who are unable to compete with agro-businesses and so forth.

Is there a link between supermarkets and agro-business? Of course there is...Sainsburys?

 

[tarannau]

How much is a bag of Tesco Value Basmati rice?
I've just eaten a 5p bag of crisps from Sainsbury's.

Fruit and veg is cheaper from a greengrocer if you want to buy lots and eat it within a couple of days of buying it.

Still far more expensive than my local asian store's unbranded basmati. And worse quality though.

Fruit and veg from the local greengrocers and market is unsurprisingly a mixed bag. What's also true is that a fair bit of it is way fresher than the supermarket stuff - having come direct from New Covent Garden thiat morning rather than to a central depot and then back out again.

You seem to have these strange inaccurate stereotypes about supermarkets and local greengrocers/markets

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Got to say it really does depend where you live. I think places like Hackney and Brixton tend to be excellent in this respect. It was far more convenient for me sto shop locally in Hackney than to trek up to Tescos which was a good 25 minute walk and orientated towards drivers. But when I lived in Gants Hill, there were lots of supermarkets nearby, but the local shops were expensive and pretty poor in selection (there certainly weren't any excellent local grocers like in Hackney).

 

[nosos]

Often in threads about supermarkets, this one being no exception, it all decends into a debate about small shops vs supermarkets and the relative price of onions.

Yeah and that's precisely what I was trying to distance myself from in the article but I had to cut bits out due to word count restrictions. There's not just one kind of virtue when it comes to retailers. Supermarkets are good for some things and not for others. Local shops are good for some things and not for others. Last year I had to do all my shopping at a supermarket because I lived on the edge of Coventry. I hated it but I'd find it equally unfortunate if I had no option of using a supermarket. Diversity is a virtue and the dominance of the supermarkets is rapidly killing it.

 

[biff curtains]

I am quite happy to buy from anywhere, don't care if it's a supermarket or Turkish greengrocer - it's the price/quality ratio that counts.

Having said that, from a class struggle point of view it makes sense to support supermarkets over small shops who at least in this country won't try and kneecap or murder trade unionists, I wouldn't fancy trying to organise in a Turkish shop in Greenlanes.

 

[dennisr]

Having said that, from a class struggle point of view it makes sense to support supermarkets over small shops who at least in this country won't try and kneecap or murder trade unionists, I wouldn't fancy trying to organise in a Turkish shop in Greenlanes.

Actually, some of the Turkish/Kurdish places in the area - especially more towards Dalston are unionised

 

[Blagsta]

Yes, if you want to buy huge amounts that go rotten in 5 minutes.
Supermarket let me buy as little as I like and charge me according to the weight for much fresher food. The local market and greencrocers aren't impressed if I tell them I want one small onion, one carrot and five button mushrooms for example.

Local shops cheaper for tinned stuff? Fuck knows where you live.

I live in Brixton mate. Bag of spuds 50p, bag of onions 50p, 6 peppers £1, tin of plum tomatoes 25p, tin of chick peas 25p, tin of kidney beans 25p from local shops. Compare that to Tesco where spuds are over £1, peppers are 60p each and tins of tomatoes are 40 or 50p.

 

[Blagsta]

I wonder how well diposed your average independent grocer would be to trade union activity on their premises...

Independent grocers are generally staffed by family and friends.

 

[Blagsta]

How much is a bag of Tesco Value Basmati rice?
I've just eaten a 5p bag of crisps from Sainsbury's.

Fruit and veg is cheaper from a greengrocer if you want to buy lots and eat it within a couple of days of buying it.

Where do you live? The moon?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I'm a bit puzzled by this "you have to buy lots at a grocer's" thing. I'd be stuffed if that was the case, I only have a little fridge. If I go down and say "I'll have a couple of tomatoes and a red pepper please" they're hardly going to say "no, piss off, you're not the sort of spender we want". Supermarkets are considerably worse for that IME as many of the smaller ones only have packaged veg.

The only thing I can think of really to favour supermarket veg shopping is that things are washed a lot more carefully. Spring onions and coriander, say (which I was cooking with today). Of course for those two you easily pay more than twice the price; I'm not that bothered about having to wash out a bit of grit.

This is all getting a bit Suburban now.

 

[Blagsta]

I'm a bit puzzled by this "you have to buy lots at a grocer's" thing.

Yeah, I'm puzzled by that too. I think they're getting confused with a cash and carry.

 

[Aravis]

Yes I've always found greengrocers to be far better at letting you have little amounts. So much stuff in the supermarket is pre-packed.

 

[shagnasty]

Now it is just one of the big four in a particular area if you don't drive your are f___ked.for me edgware is sainsburys burnt oak is tesco and colindale is asda .this for pensioners is a bad thing asda is probally the cheapest but buses dont go there from our area so they can't use their bus passes

 

[soulman]

Yeah, I'm puzzled by that too. I think they're getting confused with a cash and carry.

Or you're equating your experience with people who live in small towns and villages..

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Any feedback on argument or presentation much appreciated

If it's 10pm and I want a bag of chips, I go to the corner store, because I don't want to drive to Superstore, walk through a cavernous building, and then line up to pay for one item. I'll still be going to the corner store in 2015.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Or you're equating your experience with people who live in small towns and villages..

Why, do small towns tend to have arsey grocers?

 

[soulman]

Why, do small towns tend to have arsey grocers?

Having lived in a few I say it depends on the shop. Grocers tend to be small outlets of larger supermarkets, like spar, sainsbury's or coop now.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

More to the point, why do smaller towns have such crap off licences? T hat shut at about 7pm and charge about 1.50 a can...

 

[untethered]

I genuinely think they are cheaper and more convenient and have better workers' rights than small shops.

One very important "workers' right" is the right to graduate from salaried employment to self-employment or running one's own business. Traditionally, this has been a very successful driver of social mobility for people that are talented and hardworking but born without many advantages in life.

After a few years working in a shop you should have the skills and the opportunity to run your own. This is increasingly difficult in the retail food market due to the massive domination of the supermarkets.

 

[heartof gold]

supermarkets are grocers and there is a need for them but i think they try and sell to much without offering a proper service tbh.

Some people are short sighted if you dont use small shops they will close then you will have to get the car out and go to the supermarket all the time and put up with what they sell and what they want to charge.

Theres a community spirit with small shops too which you cant get from the person on the checkout who is only interesting in getting your items through as quickly as possible then on to the next one.

 

[untethered]

Some people are short sighted if you dont use small shops they will close then you will have to get the car out and go to the supermarket all the time and put up with what they sell and what they want to charge.

Indeed. The supermarkets are rapacious enough as it is. What will things be like when they manage to destroy all competition entirely?