Supermarket Dominance

[Simon B]

Supermarkets are only more convenient to car owners. I'd rather have a handful of shops in walking distance than one uber-shop out on an industrial estate somewhere. Supermarkets are only really worth bothering with if you can get a week's shopping in one go, on foot or on a bike that's very difficult.

I have no car, but I do work in a city centre with a supermarket 10 minutes walk away from my workplace and live about 15 minutes from it. I go twice a week to the supermarket for all my shopping which through use of a rucksack is fine.
I can't imagine anyone driving to it as there is nowhere obvious to park.

 

[Simon B]

Supermarkets are also _not_ cheaper, except for a few cross-subsidised basic goods which they deliberately use to get people there in the first place; my food shop costs about half as much if I use the market and the butchers and the cash and carries rather than the Tescos opposite.

This is a myth, in my experience.
Local shops sometimes come out cheaper if you compare the leading branded goods. If you compare supermarket own brands with leading brands in local shops, I find supermarkets are always (much) cheaper.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Whether you're going to your local shops or to a more distant supermarket, if you're going on foot or by bike it's good to get a cart to wheel your shopping.

I've got no idea why more people don't do it.

I don't want to buy all my food in one go. I like to ponder what I'm going to cook for dinner, then go and get the ingredients. That way you get fresh food and you don't end up buying loads of shit you don't want solely because its on special offer. And besides, I'm notnearly old enough for a shopping cart

 

[rich!]

This is a myth, in my experience.
Local shops sometimes come out cheaper if you compare the leading branded goods. If you compare supermarket own brands with leading brands in local shops, I find supermarkets are always (much) cheaper.

Though mostly the "own brand" stuff *is* cross-subsidised basic goods.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Hardly. The people that benefit most from local shops and would suffer most if they disappeared are people that literally don't have any other choice due to restricted mobility.

Some of the (mainly) old people I see shuffling down to my local shops really wouldn't be able to take a bus journey to a huge supermarket and then trek all the way around it.

If local shops disappeared those people would be entirely dependent on others to get their shopping and would have less exercise and fewer social opportunities to boot.

In rural areas this can be a complete nightmare, as the 'local' supermarket may be ten miles away but the shop round the corner could still go out of business because of it

 

[bluestreak]

Doing all your shopping in local shops is only practical to those who can afford it, both in time and money, which means mainly right-on middle class trendy liberals.

Pranney

 

[bluestreak]

but yeah, a good piece nos, approved.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

This is a myth, in my experience.
Local shops sometimes come out cheaper if you compare the leading branded goods. If you compare supermarket own brands with leading brands in local shops, I find supermarkets are always (much) cheaper.

There are a few "value" items that are cheaper in supermarkets - those are the cross-subsidised ones that I mentioned earlier. They are specifically designed to attract people in the first place so that they do all of their shopping at the supermarket. Milk, bread, tinned tomatoes, beans, oil etc. In which case, you treat the supermarket as another shop for that purpose and buy just those products. But most of the shopping bill does not come from those items.

Vegetables and meat are ridiculously cheaper from grocers and butchers, and branded items tend to be about the same price from other places, often cheaper. (In Tesco's yesterday they were charging one pound forty for Hovis branded wholemeal bread! Even their own Finest was cheaper than that.) If you go to Tesco's to pick up some milk and end up buying some peppers and a few chicken breasts, you will end up paying about twice as much as if you went to specialist shops. That's the whole point, that's how they make money. It's a recognised tactic.

If I'm making this up I'm doing a bloody good job of convincing the world to agree with me; when I was a student I'd do penny-pinching price comparisons of grocers vs Tesco, and I still do it. Meat in particular is vastly overpriced in supermarkets.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Though mostly the "own brand" stuff *is* cross-subsidised basic goods.

Oops, yes, you pointed that out before me. It's double true now!

 

[Blagsta]

There are undoubtedly problems with supermarkets, ripping off farmers etc. but there is also a lot of crap talked about how wonderful small businesses are.
Most supermarkets have union recognition agreements. While wages are low, workers there do at least have some protection unlike those unlucky enough to work for local shops who are small enough to be exempt from a lot of workers' rights laws.
Also, from a consumer point of view, whatever the propaganda of the advocates of local shops, supermarkets are cheaper and have a far greater choice of goods than local shops and are a lot more convenient.

Doing all your shopping in local shops is only practical to those who can afford it, both in time and money, which means mainly right-on middle class trendy liberals.

Fuck knows where you live, but it ain't anywhere I've ever been. Local shops are always cheaper for stuff like fruit and veg and often for tinned stuff.

 

[Deareg]

Fuck knows where you live, but it ain't anywhere I've ever been. Local shops are always cheaper for stuff like fruit and veg and often for tinned stuff.

i wish i lived where you are, we only shop locally when we run out, milk, bread etc, it costs far more than going to asda,

something has to be done though to stop the big stores from paying as little as possible to farmers and local producers and also to their own staff

 

[Blagsta]

Have you not got a local greengrocer? I bet it's cheaper than Asda.

 

[Deareg]

Have you not got a local greengrocer? I bet it's cheaper than Asda.

not local as such, it would be about the same distance but i will check them out, i would rather give them my money

 

[nino_savatte]

This is a myth, in my experience.
Local shops sometimes come out cheaper if you compare the leading branded goods. If you compare supermarket own brands with leading brands in local shops, I find supermarkets are always (much) cheaper.

You don't work for the supermarkets by any chance, do you?

 

[Simon B]

You don't work for the supermarkets by any chance, do you?

No. I've never worked for a supermarket in my life in any capacity.

 

[nino_savatte]

No. I've never worked for a supermarket in my life in any capacity.

Okay, you work for a PR company that works on behalf of the supermarkets.

 

[dash_two]

Local councils ought to do more to develop and promote old school street markets, which can't be beat in terms of price for fruit n veg and pound-shop type stalls selling bin liners, scouring pads etc. They are also more enjoyable places to visit than zombieland supermarkets, but that's maybe a matter of personal opinion.

But how often do you see adverts for supermarkets and how often adverts for street markets?

 

[Simon B]

Fuck knows where you live, but it ain't anywhere I've ever been. Local shops are always cheaper for stuff like fruit and veg and often for tinned stuff.

Yes, if you want to buy huge amounts that go rotten in 5 minutes.
Supermarket let me buy as little as I like and charge me according to the weight for much fresher food. The local market and greencrocers aren't impressed if I tell them I want one small onion, one carrot and five button mushrooms for example.

Local shops cheaper for tinned stuff? Fuck knows where you live.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Doing all your shopping in local shops is only practical to those who can afford it, both in time and money, which means mainly right-on middle class trendy liberals.

Ah, but this is an argument that always baffles me. When I lived in Hackney, I was on a low wage (17k - very low for London) and I did all my shopping at little local shops (mostly Turkish) precisely because it was much cheaper than the supermarket. This 'supermarkets are cheeeeep' thing always had me stumped. I would go to Tescos and see two bits of garlic neatly wrapped in cardboard for about a quid, and then go to my local shop and get about 6 garlics for the same price.

 

[Simon B]

Okay, you work for a PR company that works on behalf of the supermarkets.

No, I really have no vested interest in supermarkets at all. I genuinely think they are cheaper and more convenient and have better workers' rights than small shops.

 

[Simon B]

Ah, but this is an argument that always baffles me. When I lived in Hackney, I was on a low wage (17k - very low for London) and I did all my shopping at little local shops (mostly Turkish) precisely because it was much cheaper than the supermarket. This 'supermarkets are cheeeeep' thing always had me stumped. I would go to Tescos and see two bits of garlic neatly wrapped in cardboard for about a quid, and then go to my local shop and get about 6 garlics for the same price.

And then all your garlic goes off before you can eat it.
I can buy 1 bulb of garlic in a supermarket unwrapped for about 20p.

 

[dash_two]

Yes, if you want to buy huge amounts that go rotten in 5 minutes.

That's maybe true for the little corner shop which has a pile of onions and wrinkly red peppers quietly decomposing next to the Carlsberg Special Brew display, but in my experience it is not the case with greengrocers nor most of the time with market stalls.

The exception with the latter is those stalls where the stallholder tries to fish things out of a mysterious box near the back of the stall and stuff them in a bag before you can see them.

 

[nino_savatte]

No, I really have no vested interest in supermarkets at all. I genuinely think they are cheaper and more convenient and have better workers' rights than small shops.

Well, maybe you should think about heading up their PR operations. You appear to be doing an excellent job of defending and apologising for the supermarket's continued dominance. I find supermarkets are neither cheaper, convenient nor more inclined to protect workers rights. I take it you've never come across WalMart or Asda. If you knew about either supermarket you'd know that neither one is well disposed to trade union activity on their premises.

Supermarkets "have better workers' rights than small shops". Catch yourself on.

 

[nino_savatte]

And then all your garlic goes off before you can eat it.
I can buy 1 bulb of garlic in a supermarket unwrapped for about 20p.

That happens with supermarket produce too. I have bought items that should have been withdrawn from sale or should have been reduced because they were at their sell by date. I have bought "Ripe and ready to eat" produce from supermarkets only to discover that, once I got it home, the item was neither ripe nor ready to eat.

 

[teuchter]

Well, maybe you should think about heading up their PR operations. You appear to be doing an excellent job of defending an apologising for the supermarket's continued dominance. I find supermarkets are neither cheaper, convenient nor more inclined to protect workers rights. I take it you've never come across WalMart or Asda. If you knew about either supermarket you'd know that neither one is well disposed to trade union activity on their premises.

I wonder how well diposed your average independent grocer would be to trade union activity on their premises...

 

[nino_savatte]

I hope you're not replying to my post because

teuchter
This message is hidden because teuchter is on your ignore list.

And that is where you're staying.

 

[nino_savatte]

This is for anyone who thinks that Asda is agreeable to trade union activity

http://www.foodanddrinkeurope.com/news-by-product/news.asp?id=65803&k=Wal-Mart--AsdaA British employment tribunal found the American-owned supermarket chain guilty of promising 340 distribution staff a 10 per cent pay rise to give up the collective agreement negotiated by their union - an act which is illegal under 1992 labour relations law.

The court ordered Asda to pay £2,500 to each employee at the County Durham depot, but the world's largest retailer looks likely to appeal.

A spokesperson said: "We're disappointed with the decision. We're currently considering the 88-page judgement and whether we appeal."

The conflict started when Asda took over the depot and tried to bring staff conditions in line with its other distribution centres across the North East.

A union agreement was drawn up covering workers' rights under the new management, allegedly prompting the retailer to offer employees a paid incentive to weaken GMB resolve.

But Asda stresses the deal was "absolutely not about the removal of collective bargaining - it was simply a way of consulting our people as to whether they wanted to move into line with the employment terms at the Asda depot next door."

Meanwhile Paul Kenny, GMB acting general secretary said: "The Asda management need to take a clear message from [the tribunal]. GMB is not going away and the union will fight on every front to protect our member's rights".

This bit is quite important

But its UK subsidiary is also no stranger to bad publicity. Last year Asda's treatment of workers was widely condemned by unions and charities claiming the firm had drawn up a "chip away strategy" to reduce costs and increase productivity.

When was the last time industrial action was threatened in any supermarket?

 

[Simon B]

Well, maybe you should think about heading up their PR operations. You appear to be doing an excellent job of defending and apologising for the supermarket's continued dominance. I find supermarkets are neither cheaper, convenient nor more inclined to protect workers rights. I take it you've never come across WalMart or Asda. If you knew about either supermarket you'd know that neither one is well disposed to trade union activity on their premises.

Supermarkets "have better workers' rights than small shops". Catch yourself on.

Yeah, yeah. For anyone who considers themselves on the left to champion "small businesses" is pretty low in my view. They were the people moaning about the minimum wage and proper health and safety. If you can't afford to pay a pretty low minimum wage and conform to pretty lax health and safety regulations then tough shit, go under.

Yes I have come across WalMart and Asda and think they are scum. However, even anti-union companies that employ more than about twenty people have to have better health and safety regulations than small businesses.

I'm only coming across as a big fan of supermarkets because I feel the need to counter the usual crap that people speak on these types of lists about how great small shops are.

 

[nino_savatte]

Yeah, yeah. For anyone who considers themselves on the left to champion "small businesses" is pretty low in my view. They were the people moaning about the minimum wage and proper health and safety. If you can't afford to pay a pretty low minimum wage and conform to pretty lax health and safety regulations then tough shit, go under.

Yes I have come across WalMart and Asda and think they are scum. However, even anti-union companies that employ more than about twenty people have to have better health and safety regulations than small businesses.

I'm only coming across as a big fan of supermarkets because I feel the need to counter the usual crap that people speak on these types of lists about how great small shops are.

I think your view of the small grocers shop is rather distorted. So distorted in fact, that it sounds like the sort of thing a PR company might use as a defence of the supermarket chains that it acts for.

I find this astonishing...as well as ill-informed

However, even anti-union companies that employ more than about twenty people have to have better health and safety regulations than small businesses.

Really? And how does this relate to the small grocers and greengrocers that you've been castigating? How about some evidence to back this assertion up?

 

[nino_savatte]

As for supermarket 'choice', you can only want what is available.