Sunak wants to phase out legal smoking

[PTK]

I don't smoke. And can't be arsed reading this thread tbh. But in principle, no. Let people fucking smoke outdoors, as many of my mates do. What did you Labour voting idiots get yourselves into here....

People who voted Labour were not idiots. I voted Green, as it happens, but I know many people who voted Labour and they are not idiots.

How did you vote? Was it any less idiotic.

 

[Tropi]

With so many more pressing problems in the country right now, this seems like a weird thing to go after. Has anyone really been clamoring for banning smoking outside? Even as a non-smoker who gets routinely irritated by smokers who walk and smoke, it seems excessive in an age where smoking is already on the decline, and pubs and bars are closing in record numbers. I don't see it doing anything for Labour in terms of popularity. It just gives more ammunition to tossers like Farage and Tories who go on about the nanny state.

Or maybe Starmer doesn't care and he's getting all the unpopular stuff out of the way while he has five years of a massive majority. Who cares about someone having a fag in a park ffs. Kids playgrounds sure fine but let the dying vestiges of the smokers have their open air fag on the heath or whatever.

Yes. Ban pesticides? No. Child and pensioners poverty? It will get worse before it gets better. Stop unfair rent rises and evictions? Rich landlords rule the country.
Stop the arms trade? NEVER!

 

[2hats]

Always been a mystery to me that (almost all) smokers seem incapable of determining wind direction. They surely can't (almost) all be inconsiderate. I mean, some of them even seem friendly.

 

[skyscraper101]

Maybe Starmer's just trolling because he knows Sunak is so passionate about banning smoking he'll be forced to side with him.

 

[Sasaferrato]

A mate of mine reckons humans will always have an attachment to smoke because of long deep important connection and association with fire and incense. Food and spiritual practices are foundational in us and smoke is part & parcel of those.


I used to smoke. I miss it sometimes but rarely and briefly. Hate the smell of straights, don't mind roll-ups.

I'll choose to sit upwind of smoke if they're there before me but find it objectionable if they fire up after sitting down near me. That feels rude and intrusive, although I remember not fully understanding how obnoxious it was for others when I was a smoker.

I go to a lot of small gigs. The outside smoking area is always covered because British weather so in some of them it's really an indoor space. Some (like The George) have enormous umbrellas over the tables so it's okay: sufficient air flow. The Windmill has an actual smoking shed, like in some 1970s schools. The Shacklewell Arms' smoking area is always really crowded and very smoky. At the Windmill and the Shack I'll visit the smoking ghetto but not for long. I have to get out before being hugely distracted by the smell, to the point of stumbling in conversation.

The way my clobber smells afterwards is reminiscent of clubland back in the day and makes me feel nostalgic about younger me even though I hate it.

I've enjoyed the funny little side rooms and niche spots in larger venues, exposed and repurposed roof areas etc., having to climb an obscure staircase and then finding yourself with a grand view.

I understand why this ban is being proposed. But it's going to make things extra tricky for venues, especially the smaller places that are competing for trade (not gigs so much: music fans will still wanna go see live bands).

And I'm not against it. But it'll end some aspects of social life that are intrinsically linked to smoking, and it always feels a little sad when we lose something cultural that feels personally significant.


Apologies for unnecessarily long post. I'm in a waiting room.

Remember when people smoked in hospital, doctor, dentist waiting rooms?

I can remember my GP smoking during consultations.

 

[PTK]

There is no smoke without fire.
Makes you think, eh?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Tbh, as a means to give up cigarettes, those pen ones were pretty shit. I struggled with them for a while, but it was only when I invested in something that felt like I was actually smoking that I was able to make the switch away from tobacco.

Surely, stopping people smoking in the beer garden will just mean people will go and stand on the street and smoke/vape? And not all pubs have thriving beer gardens most of the time. In the pubs I frequent, most people outside are smoking (most are also older people for who a pint and a fag is their only social life. If anything, it should be left to the landlord/landlady's discrestion (as it probably is anyway)

The trouble is, that like heroin to methadone, when smoking is replaced by vaping nicotine, people keep vaping nicotine, rather than reducing the strength to the stopping point. Not enough is known yet about long term vaping.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

I don't smoke. And can't be arsed reading this thread tbh. But in principle, no. Let people fucking smoke outdoors, as many of my mates do. What did you Labour voting idiots get yourselves into here....

Not very left wing to allow huge multinational corporations, with a history of faking research, and lobbying politicians, in order to cover up how much damage their product did to the health - and safety - of their own customers. Better to make the mass production and marketing of cigarettes illegal but if anyone had the means to set up a small scale production of tobacco for them and their friends then so be it - that's their choice.

 

[mr steev]

The trouble is, that like heroin to methadone, when smoking is replaced by vaping nicotine, people keep vaping nicotine, rather than reducing the strength to the stopping point. Not enough is known yet about long term vaping.

I get that. Personally, I've reduced down to 1.5mg of nicotene, which is very low - what it has shown me is that the habit is just as, if not more adictive, than the actual nicotene.
I'm aware vaping isn't safe, but it is obvious that it's better for my lungs in the short/medium term.

 

[ska invita]

.
point already made deleted

 

[ska invita]

classic case of "state bans a thing i dont do or like so cheer it on"

personally i dont smoke weed but i think it should be legalised...likewise i dont smoke fags but it shouldnt be banned

 

[farmerbarleymow]

The trouble is, that like heroin to methadone, when smoking is replaced by vaping nicotine, people keep vaping nicotine, rather than reducing the strength to the stopping point. Not enough is known yet about long term vaping.

Vaping is likely to be the next scandal - give it another twenty years or so when any side-effects become apparent.

 

[maomao]

Vaping is likely to be the next scandal - give it another twenty years or so when any side-effects become apparent.

It's been widely popular for a good fifteen years surely? There must be some data.

 

[nogojones]

Ah, but small amounts of alcohol do not cause medical harm, but even small amounts of smoke are bad for the body. Furthermore, alcohol does change the state of mind.

So does nicotine. Even though I don't smoke any more (apart from when I go out and ponce fags of randoms), I think I prefer the state of mind that I get from nicotine over alcohol.

And what do you consider a "small" amount of alcohol?

 

[maomao]

So does nicotine. Even though I don't smoke any more (apart from when I go out and ponce fags of randoms), I think I prefer the state of mind that I get from nicotine over alcohol.

And what do you consider a "small" amount of alcohol?

Official WHO line is that there is no non damaging level of alcohol. All that 'one glass of red wine a day is good for you' stuff has long since been debunked.

 

[Sue]

Can we ban stinky vapes? Honestly, the smell of cheap perfume/teenage lip gloss is way worse than fag smoke.

 

[frogwoman]

Can we ban stinky vapes? Honestly, the smell of cheap perfume/teenage lip gloss is way worse than fag smoke.

I do find it odd that it's so acceptable to vape including indoors in public places when some of the vapes have much more nicotine than a cigarette.

 

[frogwoman]

Also with vapes you can often pretty much do it all day whereas with cigarettes you run out and have to buy more.

 

[agricola]

And those vile "lemon" scented things that they use to try and disguise the stale piss smell of the urinals!

I used to work in a factory that made them. It was awful - if it rained as you were walking home after the shift all the fine soap dust that you were covered with used to lather up.

Still it wasn’t as bad as the companies other factory which made toilet blue blocks - they used to go home stained blue.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I do find it odd that it's so acceptable to vape including indoors in public places when some of the vapes have much more nicotine than a cigarette.

Nicotine is highly addictive, but it's generally considered relatively harmless to health, it's the toxic chemicals in cigarette smoke that's the health problem.

 

[pogofish]

I don't remember the exact terminology but there are two kinds of glycerol they use, one for 'mouth feel' (ie. harshness at the back of the throat) and one for visible clouds. Why would you want big visible clouds of fake smoke if not out of sheer obnoxiousness?

Yup - at its most basic, PG (Propylene Glycol) and VG (Vegetable Glycerine), plus a varying amount of water mixed in varying proportions. Some vapers get it from the throat hit, which I think is PG, whilst others get it from VG/water which produces the big clouds of vapour, not always lung-filling but it can be depending on how the individual vapes. Not all mixes contain nicotine of course.

 

[frogwoman]

Nicotine is highly addictive, but it's generally considered relatively harmless to health, it's the toxic chemicals in cigarette smoke that's the health problem.

It's still not great though and some vapes contain like 2-3+ cigarettes in one inhale iirc.

 

[SpookyFrank]

When I was living in Greece, I went to see the doc and he offered me a fag.

My PE teacher used to like a crafty fag with his flask of Bovril while he was tucked up in his sheepskin coat on the touchline watching us all freeze our bollocks off on a frozen rugby pitch.

 

[cupid_stunt]

It's still not great though and some vapes contain like 2-3+ cigarettes in one inhale iirc.

I doubt they contain that amount of nicotine in just one inhale, but again nicotine is not the problem, the smoke is, I've not seen any research or reports suggesting secondary inhaling of vapour is a health issue.

There is a suggestion that inhaling the 'hot' vape could be causing problems to the user, but not others around them, apart from the smell from the bloody things.

 

[frogwoman]

I doubt they contain that amount of nicotine in just one inhale, but again nicotine is not the problem, the smoke is, I've not seen any research or reports suggesting secondary inhaling of vapour is a health issue.

There is a suggestion that inhaling the 'hot' vape could be causing problems to the user, but not others around them, apart from the smell from the bloody things.

Yeah it's clearly not as harmful in terms of passive smoking.

 

[pogofish]

It's been widely popular for a good fifteen years surely? There must be some data.

There is but a lot of it is from some pretty tainted sources - eg The US "Christian" Universities, who have considerable form for backing prohibitionist mindsets and the agendas of their sponsors.

More reputable research is ongoing but it is of a much more long term nature and likely to be less lurid in its conclusions.

Other studies can involve survey sizes that are too small/over too short a period to be statistically/scientifically meaningful, or take one particular aspect totally out of context.

The scare stories over "Popcorn Lung" is maybe the most recent example of this. Little if any of the reporting makes it clear that the risky chemicals involved here are entirely the result of small-scale/home manufacture of dodgy THC vape fluid and seldom if ever used in commercial nicotine or non-nicotine vape fluid.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I get that. Personally, I've reduced down to 1.5mg of nicotene, which is very low - what it has shown me is that the habit is just as, if not more adictive, than the actual nicotene.
I'm aware vaping isn't safe, but it is obvious that it's better for my lungs in the short/medium term.

Indeed.

 

[frogwoman]

In any case looks like I won't be doing either for a while as I've got a sore throat and it's probably not a great idea to be doing anything that's bad for my lungs had looked forward to 1-2 cigarettes this weekend. Oh well

 

[editor]

I fucking hate smoking and the vile industry that promotes it, but this is going to be the final nail in the coffin for some struggling boozers unless there's some kickback from the government, like reduced booze duty.

You don't have to drink alcohol to go to a pub, and for some small towns and villages, pubs are one of the last 'community' spaces left - and an increasingly diminishing space for young musicians,

 

[pogofish]

It's still not great though and some vapes contain like 2-3+ cigarettes in one inhale iirc.

I'm not convinced that's not just a scare story TBH. In the same way as "super-strong modern skunk" has been copiously bolloxed about in recent years

20% (20mg) nicotine fluid approximates to one cigarette (11-15mg, of which typically 1.5mg is actually absorbed) over 40-60 inhalations, depending on lung capacity/amount inhaled. So for one puff, to equivalent 2-3 fags, you would need a concentration far in excess of 100% of fluid.

It simply does not add-up.