Blagsta said:
I didn't say you were seeking to control human nature - what on earth are you on about? What I am saying is that if you want to address crime and have an effect on society, then its useful to have some idea of psychology. How else do we seek to understand why human beings do certain thngs?
Sorry, I must be confused, given you used those exact words to describe my point of view:
I'm guessing you're not clear on what I mean by behavourist. What I mean is a view of human nature that says that it can be controlled purely by negative or positive reinforcement. I tend to a more psychodynamic view.
I'm baffled as to what you think the purpose of probation and parole is then, if not to introduce offenders back into the community and to attempt to address some of the problems which brought them into contact with the criminal justice system in the first place.
Again, if you had read what was written then you would have realised exactly what I thought the purpose of probation is - namely, to ensure that parolees abide by their conditions of parole and to return them to prison if they break them. This is evident from all of your posts, but it is about time you realised that
"the problems which brought them into contact with the criminal justice system in the first place" should be read as
"the choices of that individual".
I said it earlier, but thousands if not millions of people in this country have been raised in poverty, had parents that do not meet your approval of what a parent should be and have gone to a rubbish school and done poorly; and these people do not go on and become habitual criminals.
I don't think you understand what I mean by "medical model" and "bio-psycho-social model". The medical model is a model of mental health and behaviour which locates the problems as purely being biological in nature, diseases if you like, which can be treated in a "medical" way, i.e. by drugs and medical procedures, The problem with that is that mental health problems and drug problems are not that simple - they are also a product of a person's psychology, how they were treated as children, social circumstances etc. The medical profession is not equipped to deal with all these things (although is getting better with pscyho-social nursing), which is why specialist therapists, drug workers, housing workers, social workers, employment workers etc are needed. Unless you're seriously telling me that the health profession should get involved in housing and employment issues?
Again, you are quick to make assumptions that I dont understand what you are writing when, in fact, you are guilty of exactly that. To repeat, what I think should happen is the entirity of services and bodies that currently have some sort of responsibility for mental health should come under one body - I suggested the NHS simply because they have more of a national framework in place than local social services departments. Those who currently occupy positions you describe would all be moved into that organization.
Mental health problems an "excuse"? Personality disorder an "excuse"? Word fail me. You quite clearly know nothing about mental health.
Again, you are wilfully misquoting me. Please be honest enough to read what I wrote and what it was in response to.
Are you aware of organisations such as Place 2 Be and Kids Company?
Yes, though not personally familiar with them.
Of course robbing people does not mean someone has an emotional problem, don't be so absurd. However I would argue that if a kid is very violent then the chances are that they are acting out emotional conflicts and actually therapy would be beneficial.
Which is ironic, given your suggestions above.
Of course its part of the same issue! How is it not? I've already provided you with the figures about mental health and prison population. Oh yeah, i forgot - personality disorder (often the product of childhood sexual abuse) is just an "excuse".
Again, you appear to not comprehend what is being written. Mental health provision is a disgrace but it is
not limited to the criminal justice field, as should be obvious.
You really have no idea what I mean by "problem kids" do you? I'm not talking about kids being naughty. I'm talking about kids who are being extremely violent, who have emotional and mental health problems, often to do with problems at home, being beaten by their parents, being in care, being abused, having alcolholic parents etc.
Yawn. Once again, you are responding to something that has not been written by me, only your own interpretation of that. Kids should and do respond positively to being treated equally and having their bad behaviour (and please, before the inevitable tirade of abuse, I mean the visible behaviour at school) corrected and stopped.
I am not and was never saying (indeed, there was at least one proviso to that effect) that problems like you describe should not be dealt with and treated; what I am saying (and this goes for the rest of my argument) is that behaviour of that kind (and, by extention, criminality itself) should never be excused (which, though it is different from explain, often leads to the same result of an excuse) by it. Just because something is seriously wrong with one child that can not excuse their victimization of someone else.
What?
I post figures showing how there is a real problem with mental health and literacy in the prison population and you sit there and say its irrelevant? I'm wondering why you think there is a prevalence of mental health problems in the prison population and what should be done about it?
Again, please read what was written. Its irrelevant because you are using that evidence from a system which is closer to yours than mine to show that my system wouldnt work.
Join the list and get somewhere to live? Are you for real?
Have you any idea how long a single male might have to wait to get housed? Have you any idea at all? It can be years. In the meantime, they're back on the streets or in a hostel (have you visited any homless hostels recently? Do so - it should open your eyes. In fact I suggest you go and visit a range of services - hopefully it will educate you a bit - you appear woefully ignorant) possibly with mental health problems, maybe a drug problem. What chance do they have? What does it say about our society that we lock some of the most vulnerable people up in prison then throw them out on the streets?
Look, you (I assume) recognize that there is a list. On that list are people who are law abiding and waiting their turn, often these are families. You would have someone who is not law abiding go to the top of the list and get preferential treatment. Does that seem remotely fair?
Besides, what do you do when that person commits more crime?
For your information, I have visited a string of NACRO hostels, bail hostels, and homeless services. I have frequent contact with drug workers and occasional contact (mainly through work) with mental health services and arrangement of emergency care.
You're part of the problem agricola - you're ignorant, uncaring, unthinking and unwilling to be educated. Shame on you.
Sadly, my concern is for the vast majority of people who have their lives ruined, their possessions stolen or damaged, their families and friends attacked by a very small number of people who do not wish to follow the same rules as the rest of us.
