Success! I've done it.

[Jonti]

Seriously, I agree with jaed again I think I could live with 1280x1024.

But, one learns quite a lot by breaking stuff, so let's see if i can tell you enough to let you do just that.

I doubt very much you have to change the file extension to .exe to install the software in it. Linux is able to identify what sort of stuff is in a file by, well, looking at what sort of stuff is in the file. Why go by what someone says, when you can see for yourself? It's just lame to let the filename tell the computer what sort of data is in the file, and an obvious vulnerability.

Nor do you need to kill gnome, except to restart the graphical desktop. And you can do that by just by pressing CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE. It's like the old CTRL-ALT-DEL trick, but instead of rebooting the whole system, it just stops and restarts the graphical shell, by logging you out and returning you to the login screen.

To run the file (assuming it's on the desktop) right click on it. Select "Properties", which you will see at the bottom of the menu that appears. Click on the "Permissions" tab, and then check the box labelled
Execute: [] Allow executing file as program.
Then close the properies dialogue. Now, when you double left-click on the file (or right click and select "open") the system will offer you the choice of running the file as a program, or viewing its contents.

But perhaps it's not so important to do that right now. There's a lot that is different about Linux, and it may be best not to charge in ...

Why not find your way to the screensavers (System --> Preferences --> Screensaver), roll yourself an exotic cheroot, and enjoy the visuals. You've done enough for today.

 

[bmd]

I have a widescreen monitor so I'd quite like to be able to use it to the best of its abilities but as the file won't run in Gnome, trying to run it by pressing 'run' does nothing and your ctrl-alt suggestion takes me back to the graphical desktop, eventually, I'll leave that until I come across the command. Not being ungrateful btw.

Today I will mostly be discovering how unlikely it is that my Xfi card will run on Linux. I have checked ALSA and it is in the red zone which means that there are no drivers for it. And then, confusingly, there is a page all about trying to get it working with ALSA drivers, which may as well be written in Chinese. I know, how unusual for a Linux site, I can't quite believe it myself.

Clearly not wanting to be seen as the unhelpful part of the site, the driver download page makes no reference to the file that is repeatedly talked about in the howto.

No drivers for Xfi

How to get Xfi working with the drivers that haven't been written yet.

The thing is I could get to quite like Ubuntu and therefore Linux but it really is piss-poor on documentation, even the official documentation and yes, it's free and that's lovely but I do wonder how it is that these clever people can program all this stuff and yet be so crap at explaining it.

e2a: well everyone seems agree that the Xfi has no drivers for it, Creative are mumbling something about Q2 in 2007 and ALSA are all grumpy about Creative not giving them access to their industrial secrets so they're taking their ball home.

I have onboard sound too, it's actually quite good and I've found Linux drivers for it on the manufacturers site. The readme that comes with them seems to be written by someone who thought they'd quite like to have a go at making up a whole new grammar system for the English language, good on them I say.

Here is their idea on what to do if you'd like to install the drivers, *WARNING* involves following below steps -

Installation:
This Source Code is from www.alsa-project.org.
Installation notice:
1.It must have GCC compiler in your OS.
2.Kernel source code is the necessary for driver compile.

For driver installation, please follow below steps.

Automatic install:
execute

./install

Did you notice the 'automatic' install? I am using this concept to build an automatic car. The gear stick will be kept in a locked box under the spare wheel which will be bolted to the underside of the chassis, round about the middle of the car. I'm hoping to sell it to the millions of Linux users worldwide.

 

[boskysquelch]

The thing is I could get to quite like Ubuntu and therefore Linux but it really is piss-poor on documentation, even the official documentation and yes, it's free and that's lovely but I do wonder how it is that these clever people can program all this stuff and yet be so crap at explaining it.

This is in part why I started Me Thread in Feedback... dunno if it's an attention thang but personally I get more out of these sort of convo's added to what I pickup in other places...than I do out of the documentation or geeek elitism you'll find in specialist forums.


* a few I know have kept to Dapper for this very reason...the graphic card issues...

 

[Jonti]

What if Operating Systems Were Airlines?

Linux Airlines
Disgruntled employees of all the other OS airlines decide to start their own airline. They build the planes, ticket counters, and pave the runways themselves. They charge a small fee to cover the cost of printing the ticket, but you can also download and print the ticket yourself. When you board the plane, you are given a seat, four bolts, a wrench and a copy of the seat-HOWTO.html. Once settled, the fully adjustable seat is very comfortable, the plane leaves and arrives on time without a single problem, the in-flight meal is wonderful. You try to tell customers of the other airlines about the great trip, but all they can say is, "You had to do what with the seat?"

source

 

[Jonti]

seriously now

Ubuntu's hardware recognition is very good. If it has not been able to install the appropriate software for whatever hardware cards are in your box, then it is *very* unlikely that the appropriate linux software has been written for the cards. The good news is that booting from a liveCD will enable you to find out how well Ubuntu will work on that particular box.

The problem stems from the fact that a lot of hardware manufactureres do not publish sufficiently detailed technical specifications to enable third parties to write software for their devices; and nor do they produce linux versions of the drivers themselves (or publish the source code for the windows drivers, which would help a lot).

It's a drag, I know, but it's likely to be a waste of time banging your head against the stubborn fact that, if it were possible, Ubuntu would likely have already sorted things during the installation.

 

[bmd]

Ubuntu Anonymous (My name's BMD and I'm a geek)

So anyway, I'm going for it!

I shall list the steps it took me to install these drivers below but firstly I'll list the steps it took me to install the drivers in Windows -

Put driver disk in drive, click next a few times.

Damn you to Hell Microsoft, it's Ubuntu for me!

So, after downloading the drivers once and losing them in the temporary folder (still haven't worked out how to see the folder structure on the drive e2a: I have now, found 3 million copies of the sound drivers in there) I've got them on the desktop, unzipped.

Read the readme.

Read it again.

Wept.

Day 2...

Smiled at the automaticness of the automatic install, moved on to manual install.

Step 1. unzip source code
tar xfvj alsa-driver-1.0.xx.tar.bz2

I've already unzipped the source code and so I stride boldly forth to step 2.

Step 2. Turn on sound support (soundcore module, default turn on)

Oh. K.

Look in the Synaptic Package Manager (I'm calling my underpants this from now on btw), search for the module. Nope.

Fire up Firefox, arrive back at ALSA where it says -

You must turn on the sound support soundcore module. This is in the kernel. Look in the sound drivers directory and it should be the first option.

Jolly good.

Looked in the directory of the sound drivers I'd downloaded, found a myriad of other directories but nothing that was called 'soundcore module'.

Fired up Firefox again and searched for 'how to turn on soundcore module'.

Had a brainwave, found the directory structure (I put a cd in the drive and navigated from there), found the soundcore module. It was locked, this being a weekend and everything. Right clicked on the file, looked at permissions and I'm not the owner of it apparently, I need to go into 'root' and try again from there. No idea how to do that.

Wept.

Fired up Firefox, looked for porn.

In silence.

 

[Jonti]

I guess it's worth repeating that, if your hardware were compatible, Ubuntu would likely have already sorted things during the installation.

And that one can establish hardware compatibility just by booting from a liveCD.

Oh, and that installing software "manually" so to speak (meaning via the command prompt rather than via the supplied Package Manager) is a Bad Idea, especially for folks who are new to Ubuntu.

 

[bmd]

I guess it's worth repeating that, if your hardware were compatible, Ubuntu would likely have already sorted things during the installation.

And that one can establish hardware compatibility just by booting from a liveCD.

Oh, and that installing software "manually" so to speak (meaning via the command prompt rather than via the supplied Package Manager) is a Bad Idea, especially for folks who are new to Ubuntu.

That's fair enough but I have no sound and a driver package for a sound card on my system that works, I just can't even install it.

I break Windows all the time, because I faff about with it, I save anything I might even remotely need on another drive because I know I break it and so if it's irreparably broken I just reinstall it.

Ubuntu is even easier to install than Windows, I have nothing whatsoever invested in it and it's on a drive that I don't use so if I break it I'll just reinstall it.

And so I'd like to faff. I love to faff with my pc, I like trying different things and Ubuntu seems to be a dream for people like me but I can't even work out how to start faffing, never mind break it.

I'm going off to learn about how to change directory through the command line, it would have been nice if I'd been advised of this and other basics in the documentation before I felt quite discouraged but no matter, I shall carry on despite the documentation, not because of it.

 

[jæd]

I have a widescreen monitor so I'd quite like to be able to use it to the best of its abilities but as the file won't run in Gnome, trying to run it by pressing 'run' does nothing and your ctrl-alt suggestion takes me back to the graphical desktop, eventually, I'll leave that until I come across the command. Not being ungrateful btw.

Have you tried Jonti's advice that he posted on this...?

Today I will mostly be discovering how unlikely it is that my Xfi card will run on Linux.

A quick search of ubuntuforums.org shows this to be true... Did *you* check ubuntuforums.org...?

And then, confusingly, there is a page all about trying to get it working with ALSA drivers, which may as well be written in Chinese. I know, how unusual for a Linux site, I can't quite believe it myself.

Um... Nope it seems to be written in English... Did you read the page or just dismiss it as gibberish...? (Hint: Try reading pages)

Clearly not wanting to be seen as the unhelpful part of the site, the driver download page makes no reference to the file that is repeatedly talked about in the howto.

Thats because it references a driver thats contained as an optional part of the alsa source code and the source code is easy to find an download. (Hint: The alsa website might have it)

The thing is I could get to quite like Ubuntu and therefore Linux but it really is piss-poor on documentation, even the official documentation and yes, it's free and that's lovely but I do wonder how it is that these clever people can program all this stuff and yet be so crap at explaining it.

I could say the same thing about Windows, OS X, etc, if I didn't read any of the documentation...

I have onboard sound too, it's actually quite good and I've found Linux drivers for it on the manufacturers site. The readme that comes with them seems to be written by someone who thought they'd quite like to have a go at making up a whole new grammar system for the English language, good on them I say.

Did you check ubuntuforums.org to see if anyone else has the same card as you...? Have you tried posting the name of the card here...?

Here is their idea on what to do if you'd like to install the drivers, *WARNING* involves following below steps -

I'd really avoid doing this unless you have (a) asked if there's an easy on ubuntuforums.org, or (b) asked someone else and found there isn't an easy alternative...

Did you notice the 'automatic' install? I am using this concept to build an automatic car. The gear stick will be kept in a locked box under the spare wheel which will be bolted to the underside of the chassis, round about the middle of the car. I'm hoping to sell it to the millions of Linux users worldwide.

This is the Microsoft car (ie the gearbox is restricted access). The Linux car is that you build your car first how you want it. The Ubuntu car is the Linux car pre-assembled with a big garage full of mechanics... (OS X is the race car in the garage)

This reply might sound grumpy, but its really trying to make you read things before dismissing them as "too hard" or "its Chinese"... (Hint: There's a country which finds Chinese easy)

We, and everyone on Ubuntuforums.org will try to help you, but you need to give us the correct info, and *try* our suggestions... Its a community thing...

 

[jæd]

That's fair enough but I have no sound and a driver package for a sound card on my system that works, I just can't even install it.

Well... It would help if you told us what sound card it is.

Btw, if you had read this page, you would might have noticed that you already have soundcore installed.

modinfo soundcore
filename:       /lib/modules/2.6.17-10-386/kernel/sound/soundcore.ko
description:    Core sound module

I'm going off to learn about how to change directory through the command line, it would have been nice if I'd been advised of this and other basics in the documentation before I felt quite discouraged but no matter, I shall carry on despite the documentation, not because of it.

Have you tried... https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/terminals.html ...? Its under "Help & Information" on http://www.ubuntu.com/community ...?

 

[bmd]

Have you tried Jonti's advice that he posted on this...?

Yeah, it just takes me back to where I started. I need to be in root which I presume looks different from the graphical desktop?

A quick search of ubuntuforums.org shows this to be true... Did *you* check ubuntuforums.org...?

I did. Eventually. But I have no 'trusted sources' of info on Linux atm and so tend to keep looking until I get the same message from various sources.

Um... Nope it seems to be written in English... Did you read the page or just dismiss it as gibberish...? (Hint: Try reading pages)

Well yes and it was my poor attempt at humour but underlying that is the presumption on their part that I have a huge knowledge of all things Linux in order to carry out their instructions.

Thats because it references a driver thats contained as an optional part of the alsa source code and the source code is easy to find an download. (Hint: The alsa website might have it)

They do, but as we've already established there are no Xfi drivers why is there a page for the Xfi detailing how to install drivers for it? At least, that's what it looks like to me, a noob.

I could say the same thing about Windows, OS X, etc, if I didn't read any of the documentation...

I have read reams of stuff about this, there seems to be more people talking about Linux on the web that there are about MS and yet there is a presumption of a certain level of knowledge that helps to keep me out of the loop rather than in it.

Did you check ubuntuforums.org to see if anyone else has the same card as you...? Have you tried posting the name of the card here...?

Think we've covered this.

I'd really avoid doing this unless you have (a) asked if there's an easy on ubuntuforums.org, or (b) asked someone else and found there isn't an easy alternative...

Why? If I follow your mantra then I can read about it, learn and then carry it out, can't I?

We, and everyone on Ubuntuforums.org will try to help you, but you need to give us the correct info, and *try* our suggestions... Its a community thing...

I haven't bothered with posting on the Ubuntu forums as I've either found what I was looking for by searching them or found my problem unanswered from months ago.

I really appreciate your help and Jonti's and believe me, I deal with grumpy every working day and you're not it.

 

[bmd]

Well... It would help if you told us what sound card it is.

Btw, if you had read this page, you would might have noticed that you already have soundcore installed.

modinfo soundcore
filename:       /lib/modules/2.6.17-10-386/kernel/sound/soundcore.ko
description:    Core sound module

Have you tried... https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/terminals.html ...? Its under "Help & Information" on http://www.ubuntu.com/community ...?

Cheers for that.

These are the drivers for my other soundcard.

 

[Jonti]

Heh, thanks jaed.

But BMD is plainly an enthusiastic tinkerer, and won't be happy till he's broken his new system. That's OK, it's easy enough to reinstall. In that spirit, I'm about to pass him a bloody great spanner.

BMD, if you need to work as root, type the following into a console window, press <enter>, and then give your password. Don't forget to type "exit" when you've finished working as root.

[b]sudo su -[/b]

Or, if it's just a one-off command, you can just put the word "sudo " in front of the command and it will be executed with root privileges after you've given your password.

Incidently, you change directories using "cd", just as you would in DOS.

 

[bmd]

Heh, thanks jaed.

But BMD is plainly an enthusiastic tinkerer, and won't be happy till he's broken his new system. That's OK, it's easy enough to reinstall. In that spirit, I'm about to pass him a bloody great spanner.

BMD, if you need to work as root, type the following into a console window, press <enter>, and then give your password. Don't forget to type "exit" when you've finished working as root.

[b]sudo su -[/b]

Or, if it's just a one-off command, you can just put the word "sudo " in front of the command and it will be executed with root privileges after you've given your password.

Incidently, you change directories using "cd", just as you would in DOS.

Great!

So to change directory I open the terminal window and it comes up with 'bmd@bmd-desktop:~$' and then if I want to open a directory already on my desktop (I'm presuming that as it says 'desktop' on the command prompt that that is where I'm at) I just type 'cd foldername'? If so this doesn't work.

 

[Jonti]

OK. Open a terminal window.

Type cd (if you don't say which directory to change to, "cd" will just put you in your home directory).

Then type "dir" (are you seeing a pattern here?).

You'll notice a directory called "Desktop".

Type "cd Desktop" and you'll be in the desktop directory.

Type "ls" or "dir" to see what's in that directory. Or "ls -l" will give you a more informative listing.

cd
cd Desktop
ls -l

 

[bmd]

OK. Open a terminal window.

Type cd (if you don't say which directory to change to, "cd" will just put you in your home directory).

Then type "dir" (are you seeing a pattern here?).

You'll notice a directory called "Desktop".

Type "cd Desktop" and you'll be in the desktop directory.

Type "ls" or "dir" to see what's in that directory. Or "ls -l" will give you a more informative listing.

cd
cd Desktop
ls -l

It's case-sensitive isn't it...

You're a star.

 

[Jonti]

Gis' a job.

Gotta go now. Later.

 

[teqniq]

the thing I'm trying to install is a file I downloaded from Nvidia called "NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-9746-pkg1.run".

That's the driver actually written by Nvidia which it's perfectly possible to get working - but you have to boot into command prompt only to do so.

Jonti: are you sure that Ubuntu will include it eventually? It infringes GPL. Just curious. - I'm running Debian btw.

 

[jæd]

That's the driver actually written by Nvidia which it's perfectly possible to get working - but you have to boot into command prompt only to do so.

Jonti: are you sure that Ubuntu will include it eventually? It infringes GPL. Just curious. - I'm running Debian btw.

They are included in the non-free repository... Jonti's post #55 explains how to install them...

 

[jæd]

These are the drivers for my other soundcard.

Why not just tell us the model...? The driver there is for the 2.2.14 or 2.4 kernals. Ubuntu uses 2.6.x...

uname -a
Linux erewhon.org.uk 2.6.17-10-386 #2 Fri Oct 13 18:41:40 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux

 

[bmd]

Why not just tell us the model...? The driver there is for the 2.2.14 or 2.4 kernals. Ubuntu uses 2.6.x...

uname -a
Linux erewhon.org.uk 2.6.17-10-386 #2 Fri Oct 13 18:41:40 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux

I don't know it, the sound chip is onboard my mb, which is a Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 (revision 2).

Anyway, I've broken it, Ubuntu that is.

After trying to install those sound drivers I couldn't open anything so I rebooted and got the message -

your session lasted less than 10 seconds

with this in the log -

"error while loading shared libraries: libasound.so.2: cannot open shared object file: no such file or directory"

I can't log on under any session name, Gnome or recovery or anything. So I was wondering how to fix it...?

Oh I'm good.

 

[jæd]

Yeah, it just takes me back to where I started. I need to be in root which I presume looks different from the graphical desktop?

Did you try pressing cntrl-alt-delete... This will reload the X-server (the thing which windows and menus)... Alternately restart the computer. There should be a new menu option with Nvidia in either Applications->Graphics, or the System->Preferences menu. I forget which...

 

[teqniq]

They are included in the non-free repository... Jonti's post #55 explains how to install them...

Those instructions will not install the proprietary Nvidia driver (honest!) - it's not quite as straightforward as that; not in my experience anyway. the 'nv' in the last line is not the proprietrary driver written by Nvidia. When building and installing theirs you have to edit xorg.conf and change: Driver "nv" to Driver "nvidia" along with a couple of other edits (and hope you've done everything else correctly beforehand).

 

[jæd]

I don't know it, the sound chip is onboard my mb, which is a Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 (revision 2).

System->Device Manager, and look under Audio devices...

Anyway, I've broken it, Ubuntu that is.

This would be the reason I warned you not to do it... I'm off to the gym...

 

[bmd]

System->Device Manager, and look under Audio devices...

It's not installed atm, I've got my Xfi card running under Windows.

This would be the reason I warned you not to do it... I'm off to the gym...

Well while you're there have a think about how I can get Ubuntu back.

Seriously though, thanks for your help.

 

[bmd]

Those instructions will not install the proprietary Nvidia driver (honest!) - it's not quite as straightforward as that; not in my experience anyway. the 'nv' in the last line is not the proprietrary driver written by Nvidia. When building and installing theirs you have to edit xorg.conf and change: Driver "nv" to Driver "nvidia" along with a couple of other edits (and hope you've done everything else correctly beforehand).

I believe you.

I know, I've tried.

So have you installed those drivers from the Nvidia site? If so, what's the difference between them and the ones that come with the distro?

Cheers.

 

[teqniq]

I believe you.

I know, I've tried.

So have you installed those drivers from the Nvidia site? If so, what's the difference between them and the ones that come with the distro?

Cheers.

Well not a great deal tbh (apart from a fancy Nvidia splash screen on boot and a warning message 'driver NVIDIA taints kernel'. I had (notice the use of the past tense) this driver installed on two machines and really couldn't see much difference - also every time your distro releases an upgraded kernel, and you choose to install it the driver will not work with it. You're better off staying with the nv driver provided by the distro.

 

[muser]

Ok, so I'm about to embark (again x many many times) on installing a version of Linux.

It will be on a partitioned drive that is unused, not my boot drive for Windows. Last time I tried this with Ubuntu I had to reinstall everything on my boot drive even though I didn't touch it with the install, it says this about that -

If you are creating a multi-boot system, make sure that you have the distribution media of any other present operating systems on hand. Especially if you repartition your boot drive, you might find that you have to reinstall your operating system's boot loader, or in many cases the whole operating system itself and all files on the affected partitions.

So am I likely to have it all go wrong again and if so what is the best way of minimising the chances?

Cheers.

In the past I have used 'partition magic', really works and simple to use. you boot into partition magic and select the OP you want to use (haven't read the whole thread so sorry if this has been repeated).

p.s. BMD a few of the problems you're encountering I also had when I was trying mandrake. The problem logging back into root from the usr status was a notable one for me. Is there any chance that you get a proficient ubuntu\linux user to remotely access your computer and install the necessary drives?
With a running commentary of what they are doing and why.

 

[Jonti]

Jonti: are you sure that Ubuntu will include it eventually? It infringes GPL. Just curious. - I'm running Debian btw.

Ah, no, I don't work for Canonical or anything, but I am fairly sure that Ubuntu will include the functionality eventually. Good hardware recognition (so that folks don't *need* to do the kind of things that BMD wanted to try) is part of the market appeal of Ubuntu. Stuff should just work on installation and there's very little point in messing with it if it doesn't. Point being that if there's a way of getting something to work at all, there's a way to get the installation do it automatically.

As it happens, there is plenty of software in Ubuntu that is not GPL. All that Ubuntu demands is that the software is freely redistributable. That does not mean it is free-as-in-freedom, as understood by the Free Software Foundation. But it does mean that you can make as many copies of the installation CDs as you please, and pass them around, and install them on as many machines as you please. It also means any software that is not freely redistributable has to be obtained and installed by the user, which is a bit of a drag, but the program Automatix exists to automate this. My usual routine after installing Ubuntu is immediately to add Automatix (via Synaptic or apt) and let it go fetch and install the various non-free (as in freedom) multimedia codecs; plugins; and stuff like realplayer, adobe, flash and java.

There are Linux distributions that, unlike Ubuntu, have a policy not to include, or recommend, non-free (as in freedom) software. One of the foremost of these is Brixton's very own distro, BLAG. BLAG is so cool it hurts, and is one of only a very few that is endorsed by the Free Software Foundation (linky)

There are regular BLAG meetings in Brixton. If anyone's interested, I'm sure someone will post details of the current arrangements (I'm a bit out of touch myself)

 

[teqniq]

Hehehe I'm up for a blag anytime. Got any free beers?

Just was wondering though seeing as Nvidia are disinclined to release their drivers as open-source but if Ubuntu can come to some kind of arrangement with them, well fine.