Stupid, stupid fuckers.

[danny la rouge]

Apologies for the c+p, but it says it better than I could.

What does it say, though? Who is saying "It was all peace and calm until now"? Who here is ignoring the humanitarian crisis in Gaza?

If you are saying that sections of the media will shine a distorting light on this, then you have a fair point. If you are saying that sections of the public will therefore necessarily get a distorted picture, then you have a fair point. But if you are implying that condemning this act is to condone the occupation and oppression of the Palestinian people, then you are possessed of a remarkably unsophisticated mind.

It is not helpful or heroic for anyone. Anyone. To walk into a seminary school and gun down kids.

 

[selamlar]

But if you are implying that condemning this act is to condone the occupation and oppression of the Palestinian people, then you are possessed of a remarkably unsophisticated mind.

To simplify, compare and contrast the amount of coverage that this (no doubt horrific) attack gets in the 'mainstream' media with the coverage of the continual attacks on Gaza etc.

 

[DexterTCN]

I see you're still trying to associate the massacre with Hamas. It's not only the media distorting things, then.

 

[danny la rouge]

To simplify, compare and contrast the amount of coverage that this (no doubt horrific) attack gets in the 'mainstream' media with the coverage of the continual attacks on Gaza etc.

I completely agree. And that's one of the reasons this act was stupid and counterproductive.

This act is not a legitimate part of the struggle, and is not in any way excusable.

 

[danny la rouge]

I see you're still trying to associate the massacre with Hamas.

No I'm not. In my OP I condemned a comment attributed to Hamas calling this act "heroic". I still condemn that comment along with the act.

 

[selamlar]

I completely agree. And that's one of the reasons this act was stupid and counterproductive.

And also an act born of despiration.

This act is not a legitimate part of the struggle, and is not in any way excusable.

To attempt to explain an act is not the same as to excuse it.

 

[danny la rouge]

To attempt to explain an act is not the same as to excuse it.

A point I have already made.

 

[tangentlama]

BBC news have picked this important fact up:

The fact that the school is at the heart of the settler movement in the occupied West Bank may have been the reason why it was targeted, BBC Middle East editor Jeremy Bowen says.

Many of its students are on special courses that combine religious study with service in combat units in the Israeli army.

There will be an Israeli response to this attack, our Middle East editor adds - the question is how severe it will be.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7282679.stm

 

[tangentlama]

I see you're still trying to associate the massacre with Hamas. It's not only the media distorting things, then.

A previously unknown group called the Jalil Freedom Battalions - the Martyrs of Imad Mughniyeh and Gaza claims to have carried it out, according to Lebanese Hezbollah media

But in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, gunmen fired into the air after news broke about the attack.

A loudspeaker in Gaza City reportedly broadcast the message: "This is God's vengeance."

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said the group "blesses the heroic operation in Jerusalem" calling it a "natural reaction" to Israeli attacks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7282679.stm

I am not seeing distortion in the BBC news about these murders.

 

[likesfish]

its the arabs claiming this is some sort of victory fair enough try to kill squaddies or politicons but delibratily set out to kill kids and brag about it afterwards

 

[Firky]

To simplify, compare and contrast the amount of coverage that this (no doubt horrific) attack gets in the 'mainstream' media with the coverage of the continual attacks on Gaza etc.

Yep, but does that not reinforce the media's perception of it all?

 

[Firky]

This act is not a legitimate part of the struggle, and is not in any way excusable.

This! ^

 

[Firky]

BBC news have picked this important fact up:

There will be an Israeli response to this attack, our Middle East editor adds - the question is how severe it will be.

Sledgehammer to a nut.

 

[Fuchs66]

Sledgehammer to a nut.

Probably; but what gets me about this is that as is often the case the Palastinian action is a bit like a bloke who takes his kids to the zoo, pokes a tiger in the eye with a sharp stick and then complains about the tiger ripping his arm off and eating his kids and after all that goes home for a sharper stick and more kids. On all levels sad and stupid, I find it hard to cheerlead for either side so I dont.

 

[krow]

This has been rolling all day on the news channels.

 

[nino_savatte]

So what do we know about the gunman? Or has the media produced a raft of conflicting reports with regards to his identity?

 

[rachamim18]

Tangent: "As far as the responsibility lies with the officers who ordered the...": Are you talking of the poor baby girl who was hit by shrapnel in Gaza? If so, it was a HAMAS Qassam according to villagers. HAMAS did try to play it off as an Israeli "crime" but did not think villagers would actually be candid with the outise press.

{I ask because I do not have the needed time to sroll backwards}


Could it be that even those villagers are sick of the HAMAS wrought nonsense?

"Unfortunately, the death of 'Palestinian' children is a common occurrence...":EXCEPT that any figures given are skewed. In a place where pre-pubescent teens are used as murders and footmen, where do you draw the age line? Who are firing the AKs in demos? Slinging rocks at speeds my auto has trouble with...

Who offers this data? NGOs who get it from "Palestinian" MDs, and militant spokesmen?

In fact, had I been killed my first year in the army you could have labeled me a child soldier...or could you? I knew full well and wanted the risk and service involved. How do you catagorise cultures who allow 12 year old females to marrry

Selamar: I can dig the "cut and paste" stuff but why do you focus on spurious propaganda?

"Worst humanitarian crisis since 48." How does one quantify such a thing? Is there a checklist?

"IDF planned to cleanse population centers...": I have to call false on that one. Utterly false.

"Continuous attacks on Gaza.": What? Since August,2005 how many rockets have been fired into Israel? To make a clearer point, Israel fully ceded it at that time. What happens? HAMAS tunnels into Israel and kidnaps, fires ordnance at a rate of at least 5 per day but the count is now by the minute (as in 15 minutes,etc

Firky: "nut with a sledgehammer...": 2 phrases: I} Assymetrical warfare, and II} Close Quarter Urban Combat. You need to study Gaza to understand why Israel engages locations and people there.

Should the IDF instead choose to man up and cross the border, Gaza being the most populated region on the planet with almost 2.4 million Arabs by last count you would see 10s of thousands of innocent "Palestinians" dead or mutilated."

 

[nino_savatte]

Firky: "nut with a sledgehammer...": 2 phrases: I} Assymetrical warfare, and II} Close Quarter Urban Combat. You need to study Gaza to understand why Israel engages locations and people there.

LOL!!!! You must think that we're all as stupid as you if you think that we're going to swallow this hook, line and sinker. Tell me, who has the most advanced military hardware out of the two: The IDF or the Gazans? Who has access to the latest military hardware: The IDF or the Gazans? Whose quantities of ordnance is enough to destroy Gaza twenty times over?

 

[Fuchs66]

Selamar: I can dig the "cut and paste" stuff but why do you focus on spurious propaganda?

Probably for the same reason you swallow the other side of the propoganda war without much criticism or objectivity, because it fits with his view of the world.

 

[selamlar]

Probably for the same reason you swallow the other side of the propoganda war without much criticism or objectivity, because it fits with his view of the world.

I really wouldn't bother with this guy. The phrase 'compulsive liar' springs immediately to mind.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Eight killed at Jerusalem school It's a seminary.





Contemptible.

Lay down with dogs get up with fleas...

I'm sorry it is tragic however it's still not a jusitification for the abuse which has happened and it's utterly predictable and totaly understandable.

lock people down and turn the screw and then shell them back to the stone age and sooner or later they will fight back...

as nothing and i mean nothing seems to get the palestinians a decent or fair deal, not rhetoric not paltitudes on the consent to return to 1967 greenline rather than the full right of return 1948 divisions. they have capitualted held ceases fires and nothing and no international force which even conceeds that there is aproblem does a fucking about it.

at that point of no hope and being surgically removed from the rest of the world in terms of equality human rights or and form of discourse, they face two choices fight or die...

what's contemptable is that fuck wit's tossers and supposedly left leanign people still think they can in any way critise any action taken by palestinians in reaction to their situation.

fucking do something make it fucking well stop...

and cease being some safe in your own bed cretin tuting loudly, make a fucking effort shake a leg...

failign to do so make you complict every fucking time...

 

[Spion]

I really wouldn't bother with this guy. The phrase 'compulsive liar' springs immediately to mind.

The phrase zionist ex-fascist comes to mine. He's ex-Kahanist. Look em up

other phrases that come to mind are dishonest and unable to ever provide a source or to use the quote function

 

[poster342002]

Probably; but what gets me about this is that as is often the case the Palastinian action is a bit like a bloke who takes his kids to the zoo, pokes a tiger in the eye with a sharp stick and then complains about the tiger ripping his arm off and eating his kids and after all that goes home for a sharper stick and more kids. On all levels sad and stupid, I find it hard to cheerlead for either side so I dont.

Good analogy.

Another thing that's always struck me about terrorist campaigns: the terrorists always make the mistake of assuming that a ruling class actually gives two shits if the terrorists kill a few ordinary people/civiliians. They don't - they'll just make politcal capital out of it and use it to justify further reression whilst milking it to shore up their own domestic support. WHY do terrorists never see this?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

But what is the point of your reply?

Do you, for example, think I am unaware of the context? That perhaps if you push a community about from 1947 (at a conservative estimate) to 2008 you get a reaction? Yes, I'm aware of that. But do you think walking into a seminary and killing 15 and 16 year olds is excusable? There is a difference between understanding and excusing.

You presented the "Other side". I'm well aware of the other side, and have commented on it on other threads. This thread is about a stupid, counterproductive and yes contemptible act.

yet again you make the logical fallcy mistake of assuming understanda ble means excuseable...

it's a war none of it's excuseable sadly it's all too understandable... it's not like you to be this hysterical and errect such straw men are you on your monthly?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

WHY do terrorists never see this?

define terrorists.

no one and i mean no one has managed to do this yet period...

are they like the amophous mass which you call the left ...

secondly you are clearly unware of the nature of class struggle where terrorism is the last resort of those disempowered and removed from all processes which allow them any other accord.

finally, what kind of real left winger are you if you wouldnt' understand the moraity and action of freedom fighters...

fucking once again your right wing knickers show under you left wing petty coat...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

more over if any of you psotureing muppets knew anything about the region you'd know this

the school is at the heart of the settler movement in the occupied West Bank

would be reason enough ...

settlers are not repeat not decent hard working civilian Israelis, they are the equiverlent of survivalist neo nazis or klan members with extremeist viewpoints and are armed at all times, frequently attack, kill and maim palestinians steal land property etc...

imagine a skin head gang with brutally violent tendancies... and imagine how they'd react if they knew they had army support on speed dial...

 

[Fuchs66]

Has anyone with any sense said that the settlers were a good idea?

But shooting a load of their kids isn't going to make them rethink their radical views in any way is it, it will just make the circle turn a little faster. There does appear to be pressure within Israel now to get rid of the settlers but this isn't going to help things one bit.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Has anyone with any sense said that the settlers were a good idea?

But shooting a load of their kids isn't going to make them rethink their radical views in any way is it, it will just make the circle turn a little faster. There does appear to be pressure within Israel now to get rid of the settlers but this isn't going to help things one bit.

be in that situation.

with your back genuinely against the wall where the army come and ransack your village nightly arrest your 5 years olds and take them in for administrative detention no detials given no info forth coming no time period defined, watch people you love getting killed beaten attacked giving birth and dying at check points due to refused medical care, cut of their water their electricity turn them in to ferral peoples chase them from their homes and then offer them a choice this again or death... which would you choose and when you did would you try and take as many of them with you in the most painful way that they will feel? then maybe they will equate the suffering they have inflicted with their own experince maybe then they'll stop if not at least it stops for you.

you've never been in that situation, you've never had to face down the consiquences of not doing anything when you thought maybe you could, of being surrounded by people intent on making your every moment a living hell...

what consensious is within Israel not enough.

how long precisely do you expect 1.5 million people to continue to be treated like shit in less land than cardiff town centre...

 

[likesfish]

understanding why somebody would do this yes unfortunately
excusing or thinking slaughtering kids kids is going to achieve anything more than an incoming air strike no.
its an act of hatred simple

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

understanding why somebody would do this yes unfortunately
excusing or thinking slaughtering kids kids is going to achieve anything more than an incoming air strike no.
its an act of hatred simple

you are simple and it's not an act of hatred thus showing you understand nothing of the situation.

it's an act of desperation pure and simple.

people to extreme things and look for extreme soulutions in dire circumstances...