1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Study: Why the Welsh voted for Brexit

Discussion in 'Wales/Cymru' started by editor, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    It used to be a death trap. Lots of fatalities every year.
    The development was also supposed to help encourage businesses to the "five counties". I'd love to know how that has worked out.
     
  2. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    I am aware of this. I believe the improvements to the road, as well as the single (to my knowledge) average speed check are being claimed for reducing deaths by half. Certainly this seems to be the case around Merthyr Tydfil, which was perhaps the worst area of the road.

    If it hasn't (yet) then it's not for the lack of improved transport links and a workforce-in-waiting. In which case its big (or even small) business the finger needs pointing at. People can't moan when no money is spent, then moan when money is spent.
     
  3. Happy Larry

    Happy Larry Active Member

    Don't have to, sunshine. Where I come from, Lord Leverhulme is probably the most prominent businessman of days gone by. He started his working life working in his fathers small wholesale grocery business and innovated by making soap from vegetable oil and selling it by the piece instead of by weight. He sold his soap under the brand name "Sunlight" and started what is now known as Unilever. He donated huge tracts of land to the people of Bolton for recreational purposes as well as building a model village for his workers at Port Sunlight. Like us all, he wasn't perfect, but he certainly brought about a huge improvement in many peoples lives through his ingenuity and hard work. The vast majority of the capital he utilised was generated from his own work.

    There's good and bad in everyone, both rich and poor. It's no use whinging and moaning about how the working classes are a "victim" of the rich/Tories/business people etc, both in the past and nowadays. Many working class people have made use of the opportunities this great country has offered them and have done very well for themselves financially. As have many of those those immigrants who have come here to make a better life for themselves. They also haven't sat around waiting for someone to help them, instead they've been pro-active in working hard and helping themselves
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
  4. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist my world is fire and blood

    british west africa then expanded into, by all accounts even viler, belgian congo. Just hard work eh
     
    krtek a houby likes this.
  5. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby If specified, this will replace the title

    Lord Leverhulme the racist and supporter of forced labour, is it, Larry?

    The mask is slipping, old chap.
     
  6. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    In a thread about Wales, to characterise the Welsh working class as,

    is deeply insulting. Can you think of many groups of workers who,

    more than a group who went deep underground for 12 hours a day laying on their backs hacking at rock to make your country 'great'?

    I can't.

    And for every Lord Leverhulme, a man who even the Daily Mail admits,

    I'll give you multiples of these. This is how much worth capitalism puts on the life of its workers. This is what your 'great' country was built upon.

     
  7. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Hypocritical, moralising, racist puritan cunt (who raised capital to buy his first factory not from his own work).
     
    MightyTibberton likes this.
  8. Happy Larry

    Happy Larry Active Member

    The capital he raised was invested with him because capitalists believed in both him and his prospects. They we certainly correct. Do you really think money was invested with him without good reason, bright spark?

    Leverhulme didn't sit back and whinge and moan, green with envy, that others had more than him. He pulled his finger out, and with ingenuity and hard work, produced a massive business that now, after merging with a Dutch company, employs about 170 000 people. Of course, the usual whiners will try to demonise him, as they do, but how many jobs have they created, and how much tax have they paid, compared to him?
     
  9. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby If specified, this will replace the title

    Yeah, sod the whole racism and exploitation. A great guy. One of the greats. Lots of jobs. Best jobs in the world.
     
  10. S☼I

    S☼I Cats Bumino

    I had to look this geezer up but going to.private school and having his food and lodging paid for him when he was took on by his business owning dad indicates his fortune, no matter what happened later, didn't come to him due to the sweat of his brow alone, like so many of these 'self-made' rich like to paint themselves. Like Donald "A small loan from my father" Trump, for example.
     
    Celyn and krtek a houby like this.
  11. Happy Larry

    Happy Larry Active Member

    Successful fathers often produce successful children. Not always. Some rich kids are spoilt. Leverhulme created far more than the small business his father owned. Trump has created far more than the construction business specialising in residential property that his father started and makes his money mainly from the rich with his golf courses, luxury apartments and casinos. Alan Sugar's family lived in Hackney, but through sheer hard work and ingenuity has created a profitable business employing lots of people.

    Instead of being green with envy and sneer at the achievements of others, why not give credit where it is due?
     
  12. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby If specified, this will replace the title

    Not going to laud any racists who have exploited people. Be it Leverhulme or the sexual predator, thanks.
     
  13. S☼I

    S☼I Cats Bumino

    Almost as though having a nice amount of cash is useful when getting started making more cash, which your post above fails to mention for some reason :rolleyes:

    And really. "Green with envy"? "Sneering at the achievements of others"? Where did I do this?
    I suppose it depends on your definition of achievements, but for me it ain't a big bank balance.
     
    krtek a houby likes this.
  14. Happy Larry

    Happy Larry Active Member

    I am sure that it can be. But then you also need brains and ability, otherwise it will be gone very soon.

    How much money do you think Alan Sugar started with?
     
  15. S☼I

    S☼I Cats Bumino

    Why don't you look in his autobiography and tell me?
     
    krtek a houby likes this.
  16. S☼I

    S☼I Cats Bumino

    Not difficult to find the odd rich man who made money cos they got lucky and worked hard. It's extrapolating this to make out every rich fucker started from nothing, that they're "not like other people" and it was basically just graft that made them their fortunes. The flipside of this load of old pony is that anyone inexplicably not mega-rich simply hasn't tried hard enough, which is the kind of argument shat out by 19 year old upper middle class PPE students from the Home Counties on Twitter.
     
  17. S☼I

    S☼I Cats Bumino

    Besides, Sugar is a prick who doesn't seem to take much pleasure from his fortune. I get the feeling to get him to smile you'd need a complicated series of elastic bands and a wrench.
     
  18. Happy Larry

    Happy Larry Active Member

    I'm not really surprised that you hold this bigoted view about Sugar.

    He is successful, worked bloody hard to get where he is and is obviously intelligent.

    You probably have nothing in common at all.
     
  19. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby If specified, this will replace the title

    Are you working hard to be a troll, Larry?
     
    MightyTibberton and S☼I like this.
  20. Chilli.s

    Chilli.s Well-Known Member

    Secured against other family businesses, that's how loans work.
     
  21. S☼I

    S☼I Cats Bumino

    OoooooOOOOOoooooh
    Bigoted would be an irrational dislike of the man. But I dislike him cos he's an unpleasant piece of shit.

    Anyway. You've successfully derailed the thread, and I'm not going to indulge you in this further. Either address the OP or fuck off back to aggressively wanking to photographs of Ayn Rand in that stupid hat.
     
  22. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    Hold on one minute. I’m not letting this one go.

    Trump has bankrupted businesses four times, that’s more than any other large businessman. He has had debts written off to the tune of more than a billion dollars and made thousands of people lose their jobs.

    Further to this, his largest creditor in his first bankruptcy was a man called Carl Icahn. Icahn then became a special advisor to Trump (on regulation!, I couldn’t make this shit up) for 9 months, during which he had access to non-public, i.e secret, information.

    While serving in this post Icahn pushed for a rule change that saw him make hundreds of millions of dollars for a petroleum company he held a large stake in.

    This is how the hard working rich make their money.

    Subterfuge. Some might say fraud.
     
  23. Happy Larry

    Happy Larry Active Member

    I think it's six times actually. They were mostly casinos which are always a gamble (excuse the pun).

    They would obviously be totally ignorant people. The limited company is indeed just that. It limits liability. It ensures that failed business ventures do not drag successful ones along with them. That's its purpose. Any astute lender to such a company knows this. Those that have lost money on some of Trumps failed businesses have usually made up for their losses on his successful ones.
     
  24. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    Be sure to produce some evidence to back up this remarkable claim. Thanks.
     
    krtek a houby likes this.
  25. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    Casinos are rarely a gamble. The only risk is fending off organised crime wanting to take over.
     
    MightyTibberton likes this.
  26. Happy Larry

    Happy Larry Active Member

    In his book "The Art of the Comeback" Trump claims that many of the banks that lost money on his failed businesses are still doing business with him today.
     
  27. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    You said 'failed businesses' not 'banks.' So I ask again: please produce something to back this up.

    Not sure why you believe everything Trump writes either.
     
  28. Happy Larry

    Happy Larry Active Member

    Trump has never owned a bank. What is your point?

    I was talking about lenders to Trumps businesses, which include banks like Deutsche Bank, which has lost money on some of his failed businesses but still lends to his current businesses.

    When Donald Trump Needs a Loan, He Chooses Deutsche Bank

    Why would Deutsche Bank "resume" lending him money, despite their bad experience with a past loan, unless they believed they would profit in the future from him?

    "But rather than walking away, the bank’s private wealth division then resumed lending to Trump, the troublesome four-times bankrupt client who had defaulted on a major loan."

    How Donald Trump became Deutsche Bank's biggest headache
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
  29. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    And that capital came from where? What produced that value?
     
  30. S☼I

    S☼I Cats Bumino

    Given this is nothing whatsoever to do with the thread's topic, how about you start a thread in World Politics about how entrepreneurs are merely ordinary people who happen to try harder and are smarter than the rest of us, or whatever it is you believe about them? Happy Larry
     

Share This Page