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Study: Why the Welsh voted for Brexit

Discussion in 'Wales/Cymru' started by editor, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    This is an interesting bit of research:

    I spent a year researching why working-class Welsh people in the Valleys voted for Brexit, and this is what I found
     
  2. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow daft apeth

    You could probably observe the same sorts of views in other areas that voted to leave across the country, I'd guess.
     
    MightyTibberton and 8ball like this.
  3. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    Yes, but you’ll also observe differing reasons too. For how else could you explain, e.g, the Pembrokeshire result - 57-43 for leaving - when absolutely none of what is in that article applies. Likewise for some of the North Wales areas that aren’t ‘overrun’ by immigrant communities...unless you count retiring scousers.

    What is a common factor in Pembrokeshire (which, incidentally, voted far more, percentage wise, for ‘leave’ than most of the South Wales valleys) and those North Wales areas is a ‘Little England’ culture/mentality. Pembrokeshire would probably vote to leave Wales if it could and the coast of Flintshire etc is basically Liverpool-by-the-sea for those who can afford to retire there from Lancashire.

    “Wales voted for Brexit” headlines have been common since the referendum. Which pisses me off because, for accuracy, it should be remembered it was England that really voted for Brexit. The Welsh majority for leave was 82,000 votes. The English was 1.9 million.

    Gwynedd, the most ‘anti-English’ area of Wales (and so would I be if I was born in Caernarfon without even a fucking railway station) voted Remain.

    For a binary vote, the reasons for voting were far from binary.
     
  4. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    What people don't understand is that even paying local people to build white elephants is beneficial as their European funded wages make their way into the local economy (instead of staying in the pockets of wealthy Londoners).

    I predict that Statutory funding (and match funding) will plummet in Wales under English rule and suggest that Wales has cut off its own nose to spite its face.
     
  5. harpo

    harpo Listening to Radio Jackie

    It doesn't explain why areas of similar poverty and EU funding, such as Liverpool, voted to remain.
     
    planetgeli likes this.
  6. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    Liverpool's long history of slave trading makes it a lot more multicultural than Wales.
     
  7. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow daft apeth

    I saw this curious map recently. Obviously just correlation, but there you go.

    EU Referendum Results 2016 vs. Mad Cow Disease Outbreak Areas 1992.png
     
  8. spanglechick

    spanglechick High Empress of Dressing Up

    Where's that from?
     
  9. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    The 2016 one is from the BBC referendum vote.
     
  10. Ted Striker

    Ted Striker Foot's on the other hand

  11. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow daft apeth

    Maybe, but amusing nonetheless. But every area would have had its own mix of reasons that triggered leave majorities - with some commonalities across the board. It would be interesting to see a map of leave majority areas and readership of the scumbag right wing press - difficult to tell whether there would be a correlation, but the hysterical nature of their reporting must have some impact.
     
    Dr. Furface and Celyn like this.
  12. spanglechick

    spanglechick High Empress of Dressing Up

    But where did you get the graphic from? It's just so obviously fake and I was wondering what level of organisation thought putting a map through a black and white filter looked credible.
     
  13. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    I didn’t get the graphic from anywhere. It’s farmerbarleymow’s post. I was just telling you where the first graphic came from.
     
  14. harpo

    harpo Listening to Radio Jackie

    Non sequitur of the week
     
  15. Happy Larry

    Happy Larry Active Member

    "the jobs market much more competitive, the wages of locals were driven downwards. Thus, immigration was viewed as working much more to the benefit of managers and companies than for ordinary working people. Immigrants willing to work for low wages were also seen as contributing to the decline in some town centres, and in particular leading to the growth of charity and low-value shops catering to the needs of a low-wage economy."

    The people of Wales were spot on. Many working class people in Greater Manchester, that I know, think exactly the same.
     
  16. Happy Larry

    Happy Larry Active Member

    They don't believe it because they know that it is not true.

    Unless the wealthy invest their money, and therefore contribute towards new business or housing loans etc, then they will not stay wealthy, as inflation will eventually decrease their buying power.
     
  17. Celyn

    Celyn Well-Known Member

    Oh well, it doesn't matter. Even if every voting area in Wales had voted to remain, you would still be leaving instead. :(
     
  18. Celyn

    Celyn Well-Known Member

    You don't think that locally paid wages are of benefit to the local economy?

    What are your reasons for saying that it is not true that they make their way into the local economy?
     
    ddraig likes this.
  19. Celyn

    Celyn Well-Known Member

    Why, in your view, did Glasgow vote to remain?
     
  20. Happy Larry

    Happy Larry Active Member

    I have no personal knowledge of that as I was last in Glasgow many years ago. Perhaps the people there are mindful that Scotland may well become independent of the UK one day, and therefore being part of the EU may be seen to be beneficial if independence does happen. Perhaps the Scots do not perceive the same threat to their jobs, from excessive immigration, that the Welsh and the people of Greater Manchester do.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  21. Happy Larry

    Happy Larry Active Member

    They are a temporary benefit, but spending money on "white elephants" is obviously a total waste of resources.

    As much as Socialists hate to admit it, the "wealthy" pay a huge part of the nations tax directly, and also indirectly by employing most of the nations labour force, who in turn pay most of the rest. Their money does a lot more than simply sit in their pockets.
     
  22. Celyn

    Celyn Well-Known Member

    So it IS true that there is benefit to the local economy.
     
  23. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    The dualling of the Heads of The Valleys road, paid for with EU money has had a major affect on the local economy. It is now possible to do a drugs deal in Brynmawr at 930 and still be back on the Gurnos before your curfew.
     
    Riklet, phoenixlily, JimW and 4 others like this.
  24. ddraig

    ddraig dros ben llestri

    ah those kind selfless rich folk, what would we do without them...
     
    MightyTibberton and Celyn like this.
  25. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    A large part of their wealth (now inherited, passed down) was directly made from the labour of the Welsh working class in the industrial revolution. A revolution that benefitted a small class of people in Britain while the workers of South Wales got nothing in return beyond illness and death. Have you ever visited the valleys? A more obvious gap between those who make the wealth and those who take the wealth is hard to imagine in Britain.

    So..fuck off.
     
  26. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    The Heads of the Valley Road is boss. No cameras (one last time I looked), no police, no traffic. We have some great, empty, EU funded roads in South Wales.
     
  27. Happy Larry

    Happy Larry Active Member

    They weren't paid then? They were forced to be there?

    Or did they work for the businesses/mines because they knew they would be better off by doing so? It worked both ways.

    My own ancestors worked in the cotton mills and coal mines of Lancashire. My grannie worked in a textile mill from the age of 12. When I was horrified at this, she looked at me as if I was crazy and told me that it was the happiest day of her life as she felt so proud that she was then able to assist her family. People like my ancestors left the farms of England because they were taken advantage of by wealthy landowners. They were far better off working in the factories and coal mines, so why not give some credit where it is due? Of course, the owners of these businesses made a good return on their businesses until they mostly closed down due to the high cost of labour in the UK which made imports manufactured with cheaper labour less costly to the consumer.
     
  28. Happy Larry

    Happy Larry Active Member

    You'd struggle to feed your families without the employment they provide.
     
  29. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Wow. Where to start? Maybe start by asking where the factory owners got the capital from to build the factories?
     
    Celyn likes this.
  30. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    They weren't paid much, no. And relative to the wealth they created (putting the 'Great' in Britain) they were paid nothing.

    Were they forced to be there? Do you know what the alternative was? Did your granny mention the workhouse?

    Maybe stop with the history lessons from your gran and do some actual studying instead. I'm not going to do it for you, but I will give you a start. To understand what I'm getting at, you need to go back not to the 1800s, but to the Poor Law Act of 1388 which created a culture that restricted the movement of labourers (what would become the working class) and started a form of welfare state that obstensibly was there to look after the workers.. And only when that crashes with the poor harvests and the beginnings of the industrial revolution can you start looking at the New Poor Law of 1834 which really starts to put the boot into the poor with its new rules on the workhouse. Then you might throw yourself in some statistics which will show you the tens of thousands of deaths caused by coal mining in south Wales alone, despite which, men still 'chose' to go down the mines.

    Forced to be there? You work it out for yourself.
     

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