danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Nail Head.
Strike ballot over 'fat' fireman
- Thread starter danny la rouge
- Start date
Pish. Where have I claimed that I know more that those who work with him or their FBU rep? I've simply argued for some degree of personal responsibility - at no point have I suggested that firemen shouldn't be given support and every opportunity to meet standards
People don't, however, get to 20stone overnight, nor is there likely to any instant changeover point from 'fit' to 'unfit'. FWIW, The fact that his bosses are talking of a 'very long and arduous process' suggests that his weight has been an ongoing concern rather than something that's sprung up. And weighed against that I'm pleased and encouraged by the support of his fellow officers.
People don't, however, get to 20stone overnight, nor is there likely to any instant changeover point from 'fit' to 'unfit'. FWIW, The fact that his bosses are talking of a 'very long and arduous process' suggests that his weight has been an ongoing concern rather than something that's sprung up. And weighed against that I'm pleased and encouraged by the support of his fellow officers.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
You've mead clear that there is a difference between this firefighter and others, which is what management have cliamed too. They claim he has no righjt of appeal so the 'long and arduous' process seems to have been curtailed....
You claimed "As you say, it's very difficult to get a comprehensive take based on this article, but something here seems not to ring true". So what doesn't 'ring true', nice implication that something is amiss..... But hey you carry on...
And here "It doesn't really help that the FBU official spouted out '"He hasn't done anything wrong, he just turns up for his work' as if he's a passive bloater, doing little to rectify the situation." Another claim by you, so so obviously have a better insight into what happened that the rep. As you should be aware given your long friendships with firemen, just turning up for work involves many things, and not just being a 'passive bloater'.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Here's how the FBU regional secy sees it: “The general feeling among members is sheer frustration and astonishment that management can portray it as though they have applied a fair and open process. We’re hopeful that they, and the convener of the board, will see sense and invite us to talk.”
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
So why do his colleagues support him? Why did 80 turn out to a union meeting? Why does the FBU regional secy say: "The general feeling among members is sheer frustration and astonishment that management can portray it as though they have applied a fair and open process."?
My bet is that there's something behind this on management's side, and that that post was from management.
My bet is that there's something behind this on management's side, and that that post was from management.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
I think so, too. I think management are trying to set a precedent (about which I don't yet know), which will have wider implications.
"Modernisation" agenda, maybe.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
Absolutely. No one here knows all the evidence in his case, the same goes for many other possible strike action cases. But we stand by those who strike because chances are they aren't going to ballot for strike action over something entirely frivolous.
There really is a nasty stench of prejudice in the air.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Yes.
And it's not to hard to see where it leads us if we ignore his workmates because we think they're wrong to support a fat bloke.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
There is precedent from disability discrimination that an employer must make reasonable adjustments so that a disabled person can continue in paid employment.
However if reasonable adjustments have been made and the employee is still unfit to continue in paid employment employers are permitted to dismiss them.
However if reasonable adjustments have been made and the employee is still unfit to continue in paid employment employers are permitted to dismiss them.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
I don't give a fuck what they're "permitted" to do. To be frank.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Are you suggesting that the guy in question was disabled for the purposes of the DDA?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Well I wonder about that.
My last reading on it was pretty unclear as to what qualified as a disability and what not.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
Just another attempt to divide. Yes, we all support the right of others to be fairly represented by their unions, but lol, look at the fat man ...
I think it's becoming reasonably clear, as others have pointed out, there's another agenda here. Whether the management intend it or not, it's clearly a case to be fought because of the precedent it could set for others to be dismissed and denied the right to appeal in the future. That's, perhaps, what people should be focusing on now.
untethered
For industry & decency
If it's all the same to you, I don't want to see taxpayers' money being wasted on fat firefighters that aren't fit to fight fires.
No-one is entitled to any specific job and if it's public money being spent then the authority needs to be sure that it's being spent wisely. Otherwise they are just effectively stealing from the taxpayer.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
No, it's pretty well defined for most cases. It was a highly speculative suggestion, and in any event, redeployment would be a reasonable adjustment if that were the case.
chegrimandi
associated with adultery
Interesting - A new poster on a local board steamed-in with this as their very first post:
Axe-grinding maybe?
I tell you what - I thouroughly agree with that person. People:
'eating a big packet of crisps and drinking a big bottle of coke during it'
should be fucking shot. Fancy the cheek - eating crisps and drinking coke at work. fucking outrage.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Yes, I would have thought redeployment could be a "reasonable adjustment" but I don't know what is possible in the fire service.
What would happen if a frontline soldier became too fat to pass their physical, would they expect to be redeployed rather than dismissed also?
pogofish
Testicle Hairstyle
Very possibly - There has been an awful lot of ruction over the streamlining & merging of stations in the last few years.
Never mind the massive financial implications of their "development" deal on the Anderson Drive HQ station.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
There have been quite a few posts on this thread already about what is possible in the fire service.
The issue of frontline soldiers is entirely irrelevant.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
So my brother in law, who suffered depression after seeing too many dead bodies should have been sacked?
No, if it's all right with you I'll go with the big guy's colleagues on this one.
chegrimandi
associated with adultery
shall we construct a list of sackable offences:
eating crisps
drinking a coke
being overweight
smoking
we've got so far - care to add anymore anyone?
eating crisps
drinking a coke
being overweight
smoking
we've got so far - care to add anymore anyone?
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Wearing a Fred Perry shirt.
Having too much ginger hair.
untethered
For industry & decency
There should be adequate provision and compensation for people who have suffered injuries and disability as a result of doing their job, but if ultimately they can't do the job they were employed to do and can't reasonably be redeployed then you have to let them go.
But this chap isn't depressed or injured from his job from what we know. He's just morbidly obese in a job which requires a high level of physical fitness.
Who the fuck is arguing that? I don't think anyone begrudges fire officers time off and/or a sideways move should they experience injury of any kind.
Getting yourself up to 20 stone and into a position where you're unable to perform your duties adequately is another thing entirely. If there are compelling medical or mental reasons why he's reached that weight then it's one issue, if it's a lack of effort on his side then it's another.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
The management. Next, if they get away with this.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
You're not exactly flowing with the milk of human kindness are you, and given the paucity of actual hard facts that seems a bit of a shame.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
p.s. what do you make of his colleagues willingness to back him? Surely they're in a good position to judge the merits of the case?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
That means you're an anarchist, so clearly you should be sacked.
Well, if that comes to pass I'll be the first to argue on behalf of your brother-in-law and others like him.
But I'm not going to taking a principled stand over a bloke who appears not to be able to moderate his own behaviour or show enough motivation to get into a shape that would allow him to perform his life-saving duties adequately. I'm all for giving someone every chance to improve their fitness, particularly if they've issues to work through leading to weight gain, but if someone won't help themselves it's another thing entirely. He's effectively deliberately making himself unfit for duty, either through lack of control, motivation or design.
I'm also of the opinion that there's something else behind this. It'd be have simpler and less hassle to transfer him to desk duties, but it sounds as though he's rubbed people the wrong way.
But I'm not going to taking a principled stand over a bloke who appears not to be able to moderate his own behaviour or show enough motivation to get into a shape that would allow him to perform his life-saving duties adequately. I'm all for giving someone every chance to improve their fitness, particularly if they've issues to work through leading to weight gain, but if someone won't help themselves it's another thing entirely. He's effectively deliberately making himself unfit for duty, either through lack of control, motivation or design.
I'm also of the opinion that there's something else behind this. It'd be have simpler and less hassle to transfer him to desk duties, but it sounds as though he's rubbed people the wrong way.
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