'street medics'

[Corax]

The other problem is that unprofessional first aiders such as St. Johns (or elaster plaster banders) can sometimes do more harm than good. I only have anecdotal evidence for this however and unlike is popular around these parts I won't be passing it off as fact [/url]

I had the same impression. But I recently noticed that the paediatric ICU ambulance round these parts is based at a St John's station (don't know if they actually run it or not). When I commented on this, NHS colleagues stated that they'd upped their game and changed their MO in recent years.

 

[Herbert Read]

I'd be interested to see what the actual question and context was.

The full report is available on the NT website if you are a member (at least it was) and I think it will be available on Athens if you have an account with them.

 

[Corax]

The full report is available on the NT website if you are a member (at least it was) and I think it will be available on Athens if you have an account with them.

I've got an athens account but the p/ws at work. Will try to remember to check Monday.

 

[Herbert Read]

I had the same impression. But I recently noticed that the paediatric ICU ambulance round these parts is based at a St John's station (don't know if they actually run it or not). When I commented on this, NHS colleagues stated that they'd upped their game and changed their MO in recent years.

St. Johns certainly have done after getting stick for it. I was really thinking about members of the public who despite their best intentions have made a bad situation life threatening. One that sticks in my mind is a tale I heard of young woman in her twenties who broke her femur. The first aider overlooked this, calmly drove her to hospital by which time she had nearly bled to death.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Hypothetically speaking, Stoner. Jeez... has everyone been drinking out of the same cup as garfield?

In a circumstance like the one illustrated below - I would intervene, but if it was someone with what seemingly looked like a none life threatening injury, I'd stay well out of it.

So we were just speaking hypothetically about not helping people?

ETA: Intervening can just mean stopping, checking they are ok and calling for help rather then crossing the street and staying well out of it.

 

[Corax]

St. Johns certainly have done after getting stick for it. I was really thinking about members of the public who despite their best intentions have made a bad situation life threatening. One that sticks in my mind is a tale I heard of young woman in her twenties who broke her femur. The first aider overlooked this, calmly drove her to hospital by which time she had nearly bled to death.

Fuck me. Fractured neck of femur is fucking serious. Even I know that, and I'm only NHS admin ffs.

 

[Herbert Read]

Fuck me. Fractured neck of femur is fucking serious. Even I know that, and I'm only NHS admin ffs.

The deep femoral artery carries a lot of blood.

As I said it is anecdotal evidence but you get my point

 

[ymu]

So, are you arguing that it is better to have noone trained in first aid around to make such mistakes less likely? Or solely that you personally would not be prepared to take responsibility in a situation where someone needed first aid?

 

[PeterTCA]

First Aid. The Basics.

If it's bleeding - plug it.
If it's broken - imobilise it.
If it's got no air in - get some back in - and fast.
If it's burning - cool it down.

FFS! No one is asking anyone to perform brain surgery on the kerb side.

Keep it simple. Listen to the victim. Even if you can't do anything - stay with them.

What kind of human being would walk to the other side?

 

[Herbert Read]

So, are you arguing that it is better to have noone trained in first aid around to make such mistakes less likely? Or solely that you personally would not be prepared to take responsibility in a situation where someone needed first aid?

I can't really say with certainty with out being in such a situation, but personally I was be very cautious about it. Dressing up a few lacerations, bumps, and burns is one thing, doing cardiac compressions on someone with one day's first aid training is quite another. Would I give it a go? Yeah I would LIKE to think so but I would be shit scared. I stopped someone from choking to death on their own tongue once and gave another person a shot of adrenalin after they took a bite of a snickers muffin (anaphylactic shock) but she told me what to do, seconds before she swelled up like a balloon and went red.

What I am saying really is you can do more harm than good and that is such a worry that even off duty nurses are concerned about it. This creates the "climate of fear". I think it's all rather sad. I don't want a bumbling idiot trying to help me but I don't want to be left bleeding to death either.

 

[Corax]

What kind of human being would walk to the other side?

A copper?

 

[Herbert Read]

A copper?

Someone in shock who witnessed it? Someone who doesn't know what to do? Someone who hopes that someone else will intervene (bystander effect)? etc. etc.

 

[Mr Smin]

I've backed up first aiders lots of times and I'm impressed by the ones who keep their heads and follow their training. A first aider who has training but no experience who finds themself dealing with a seriously injured person is facing a lot of pressure. If this is in the middle of a G20 situation as well, you're doing well if you can sort out the ABCs.

I have also seen some dangerously clueless St John uniformed volunteers which is why I wouldn't rate their training services.

Fractured SHAFT of femur is serious, fractured NECK of femur far less so (in itself, but as it mostly happens to old people it can end up hastening their deaths).

The St John Peads ICU is, I'm guessing, driven by a St John person but the staff in the back will be hospital based doctors and nurses. These are transfers between hospitals, not 999 calls in the street).

Nurses have a variety of specialisms. I'd expect an A&E nurse to confidently render aid in the street, I wouldn't assume nursing home nurses could or should do.

 

[dylanredefined]

Actually your assuming wrongly .The A&E nurse is used to dealing with trauma in an A&E department lots of kit well trained team and hot and cold running doctors.
The nurse in a nursing home more used to dealing with incidents without kit
and doctors close by.
THough I bet the nmc would have criticised them for leaving the nursing home and patients there to attend the accident .

Would this street medic be part of a group or just turning up on the day ?
if the latter I can see lots of problems.First aid training is available but you really need lots of it and relastic exercises to become proficent.imho.

 

[eoin_k]

Action medics in the UK have organised trainings recently. If you are interested in skilling up so that you can help people you meet on actions and demonstrations get in touch with them. At the G20 I helped someone with a head injury and their training was invaluable. I'll leave the rest of the posturing and rambling to people with a less practical head.

 

[ymu]

Cheers!