Strathclyde Police Federation call for all drugs to be legalised

[TAE]

Who mentioned nationalising it?

I thought that's what you meant by 'taking it out of the hands of gangsters'.

I'm well aware that big business often behave like gangsters, but I'd rather have the drugs trade subject to controls than the free for all we have at the moment.

I don't think it would make a big difference.

I'm well aware that it can be very difficult to stop. So...what?

So it's not simply a case of people freely chosing to take drugs.

Like alcohol you mean?

I was thinking of drugs which make you halucinate and/or paranoid. Stuff that really messes with your head.



Remember the suggestion was to legalise all drugs. I'm not even sure what that would mean in praxis.

 

[TAE]

So how you going to stop them?

It's not my job to come up with a solution.

 

[Blagsta]

I thought that's what you meant by 'taking it out of the hands of gangsters'.

What gave you that impression?

I don't think it would make a big difference.

So making drugs legal, cheaper and quality controlled would make no difference? No difference at all to OD's, health problems, crime, the prison population, turf wars, street dealing etc? Really?

So it's not simply a case of people freely chosing to take drugs.

And...what? Who said it was? What's your point?

I was thinking of drugs which make you halucinate and/or paranoid. Stuff that really messes with your head.

Cannabis, LSD, shrooms, ketamine etc are not known for making people violent. Amphetamine, cocaine/crack can make people more prone to paranoia and violence, but if legalised there would be less stigma in getting help. Alcohol is the worst for violence.

Remember the suggestion was to legalise all drugs. I'm not even sure what that would mean in praxis.

And? I don't know what your point is.

 

[Blagsta]

It's not my job to come up with a solution.

But you'll spout your ill informed opinion in public anyhow yeah?

 

[TAE]

Oh do piss off.

Don't give me the "unless you can come up with a full solution you can't have an opinion" bullshit.

I'm out.

 

[Blagsta]

Oh do piss off.

Don't give me the "unless you can come up with a full solution you can't have an opinion" bullshit.

I'm out.

Eh? I didn't give you the "unless you can come up with a full solution you can't have an opinion" (whatever that is). I was just pointing out that your knowledge seems somewhat lacking and ill informed. No need to throw a hissy fit ffs.

 

[MatthewCuffe]

Soul On Ice - a fair point!

As I understand it, the view comes from the rank and file. In other words, those on the ground.

Chief Police Offices are like bishops in the English Civil War period: stuck in ivory towers, not listening to the people on the ground, and coming up with bad ideas.

90 day trial and detention and all the rest are plans so idiotic they must have been dreamed up by people whose feet have left the planet.

Our disease today is hubris and we must cure it before nemesis gets involved.

That means listening to the people on the Clapham Omnibus or the Urban75 bulletin board. That's where the real wisdom is to be found.

Power to the people!

 

[detective-boy]

Don't give me the "unless you can come up with a full solution you can't have an opinion" bullshit.

Wanker.

 

[detective-boy]

90 day trial and detention and all the rest are plans so idiotic they must have been dreamed up by people whose feet have left the planet.

Except they didn't. The media may have reported the senior officers who were pressing the case for the extended detention period, but it was supported by many / most of the officers who actually try to deal with terrorist suspects (i.e. "the rank and fail. In other words, those on the ground.")

 

[zenie]

I think it sounds like a good idea

 

[magneze]

Hmmm, not sure about *all* drugs ... wouldn't want to see these for example ...

 

[pogofish]

At last, the first fragments of sanity force their way into the miserable 'war on drugs' and the prohibition on talking about ways to solve the epidemic of hard drug use that we now face in our society.

I'd have to say that despite being ultra hard-line till a few years back, Scottish forces are now well ahead of the rest of the country when it comes to sympathetic policing of personal-use issues for most drugs. Indeed, many forces already operate an unnoficial policy that is effectively decriminalisation unless implicated in other crimes.

 

[MatthewCuffe]

It has been a long tradition in the United Kingdom that sensible ideas are applied in Scotland well before they are applied in England. In England neanderthal debates on whether they are good ideas or not are conducted, while across the border the practical realities flourish.

Another one is leadership in the Green party. In Scotland there are two gender balanced 'co-convenors', which amounts to the same thing in my book.

 

[pogofish]

I think the worst drug is heroin - at least it seems to be the one causing most of the problems (and crime) in the North East of Scotland where I live.

Surely you must have noticed that much of the recent upsurge has been squarely attributed to crack taking a hold in our area? Indeed, IME it & coke have never been so easily available as now

 

[Combustible]

The drugs trade as it stands is the biggest example of the free market in action. Apart from the illegality pushing up prices it is essentially unfettered exploitation with no regulation. The demand for drugs will not go away, if the police crackdown , prices go up and addicts just find different ways of paying for the drug often through crime. There is no regulation of the quality/purity of the drug nor is there anything stopping dealers from pushing harder drugs onto 'soft' drug users.

State distribution of the drugs would solve many of these problems. Quality could be regulated, it would be easier to keep put of hands of children. The incentive of profit would be removed as would the pushing of harder drugs,. They could be provided along side facilities for drug rehabilitation and medical advice and it would stop the practice of criminalising people for essentially doing no wrong but administering chemicals into their own body.

 

[Bear]

Surely you must have noticed that much of the recent upsurge has been squarely attributed to crack taking a hold in our area? Indeed, IME it & coke have never been so easily available as now

No, I live in Aberdeen and have heard that cocaine is a lot more common but I haven't seen that many problems with it. About 4 years ago I did some community service in Fraserburgh when I lived in Buchan and most of the other people on it were heroin addicts. I think heroin is causing far more damage than coke. But maybe that's because there are about 50,000 heroin addicts in Scotland and not nearly so many cocaine addicts? I dunno tbh, but I have seen more problems with heroin than anything else. And I see more problems with alcohol and obnoxious drunks than with E and pot.

 

[pogofish]

Fraserburgh/Peterhead is maybe the exception as Heroin is certainly the main problem there but yes, everything I've seen in the last year or so points to cocaine/crack as the growing problem in & around Aberdeen - with heroin use remaining fairly stable. Of course, the private interests competing to provide Methadone clinics on contract are doing their best to big-up their end if the problem & most of the official discussion has centred round this.

Of course, same as everywhere else. Alcohol knocks whatever problems we have with all other drugs into the proverbial cocked-hat.

 

[pogofish]

In England neanderthal debates on whether they are good ideas or not are conducted, while across the border the practical realities flourish.

The neanderthal debates still go on here as well - with the same vitriol, selfish self interest & political point-scoring you get elsewhere. Despite this, the official line that "Nothing has changed in the way Scottish forces handle drugs" belies the fact that they quietly improved matters some years back & simply don't get gaught-up in everyone else's stramash.

 

[MatthewCuffe]

Stramash?

 

[pogofish]

A turmoil; a broil; a fray; a fight

 

[Jessiedog]

I don't like the idea of doctors giving an ultra addictive drug like heroin to someone who isn't already and addict but I suppose I'd still prefer that to them buying it of dealers because of all the crime the illegal market creates. I mean, I'd rather £1 a week of my taxes went to that than £100 went on the police courts and jails trying (and failing) to stop the crime caused.

Anybody any statistics as to how much crime is drug related? I'd be interested to read just how much crime could be reduced by.

I've read loads of stuff over the years and it seems that the consensus is that if all drugs were regulated by the state (the NHS would be a good start for synthetics and even distribution of organics, but many less addictive drugs could be more widely available,) then crime that matters, that has an impact on many peoples lifes (street crime, burglaries, robberies, etc.), would fall by anywhere between 50% and 80% (it's late, I'm tired, perhaps someone else would be kind enough to dig out a relevant report/study and post a link, ta?).

Violent crime overall, unfortunately, would probably fall by less - alcohol is a major, MAJOR problem. Given a wider choice of legal drugs, however, and cannabis in particular, violence would diminish more substantially over time. Think "coffee-shops" rather than "pubs".



Woof

 

[Velouria]

Violent crime overall, unfortunately, would probably fall by less - alcohol is a major, MAJOR problem. Given a wider choice of legal drugs, however, and cannabis in particular, violence would diminish more substantially over time. Think "coffee-shops" rather than "pubs".



Woof

But they just banned smoking up here

No chance of coffeeshops now

 

[gentlegreen]

But they just banned smoking up here

No chance of coffeeshops now

Well people would only have polluted perfectly good cannabis with filthy tobacco
I have in mind vapourising lounges.

I've only just noticed there's a sheesha lounge near me - I wonder how they fit into the act ....

.

 

[pogofish]

I have in mind vapourising lounges.

I've only just noticed there's a sheesha lounge near me - I wonder how they fit into the act ....

.

The coffeeshop they tolerated in Scotland a couple of years back was non-smoking - vapouriser only & TBH, that probably put as many folk off using it as its proximity to a police station!

If the Scottish act is anything to go by, they are utterly fucked. No consideration has been given at all. Although there is now momentum gathering behind a geoup of owners pressing for an exemption here.