Stop the War? Pull the other one..

[changingman]

allowing them to seize the Norris's luxury £600,000 house in Chislehurst, Kent, after a confiscation order for £386,000 worth of proceeds from his drug deals.

And that makes him a bourgeois? Nouveau riche prole mate in my book (Das Kapital). He probably shops at Asda with Jade Goody.

Stephen Lawrence wanted to be an architect. How does that fit with your working class caricature?

Eh?
well, exactly!!!

 

[audiotech]

And that makes him a bourgeois? Nouveau riche prole mate in my book (Das Kapital). He probably shops at Asda with Jade Goody.

Eh?
well, exactly!!!

What, that murdering plumbers, hod-carriers and white van men are working class caricatures of your own making, or that Stephen Lawrence was from a working class background?

Bourgeois in a sense that he probably likes to rule the roost, wherever he might be (The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State).

 

[Batboy]

I'd rather be batty than a swppy

What ever 'scrotumsville' is your clearly very original at name calling. Comparing the SWP with New Labour is even more original. Well done!
?

Comparing them as opportunists..i somehow feel I am not wrong there.

So, according to you the general public are pissed off with the SWP and this is why a million people didn't march this time. Can you indicate which sophisticated, statistical methodology you used to come up with this simple and completely barking conclusion.

I said this as one of the reasons- if you read through my posts you will see how I cite 'apathy' and 'going home for dinner'. There are very few people who have the stomach for a full on entrenched protest.

But I will still say that the 'majority' of people do not want to be associated with the SWP or any other fringe obscure political group that comes out beating their drum, flying their advertising hoardings and discolouring what should be a simple protest issue with a variety of tangents causes

You want a protest - keep the fringe groups out and keep it simple. Single issue protests do work.

And for the record nobody is more pissed off than me at this fuckwitted government taking us to war with Emperor Bush but I would not want to go on a SWP beano to Hyde park...sorry that is how I and many others feel...

fuck this thread is boring....worse than premiership footie...

 

[audiotech]

You are Batty.

But I will still say that the 'majority' of people do not want to be associated with the SWP or any other fringe obscure political group that comes out beating their drum, flying their advertising hoardings and discolouring what should be a simple protest issue with a variety of tangents causes

The 'majority' can make up their own minds. These groups are afterall voluntary organisations.

You want a protest - keep the fringe groups out and keep it simple. Single issue protests do work.

Your up for banning political groups (even those that organised the thing in the first place?) I take it?

And for the record nobody is more pissed off than me at this fuckwitted government taking us to war with Emperor Bush but I would not want to go on a SWP beano to Hyde park...sorry that is how I and many others feel...

No apologies necessary. I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings and that of your 'many others'. ffs don't go on the bloody march then, agitate and organise these 'many others' you keep rambling on about and then go for a 'beano' with them (I alway's liked the Bash Street kids myself ).

fuck this thread is boring....worse than premiership footie...

Try Man City, LETTSA will give you the details.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Hmm, very perceptive, treelover. Hence the handle. Slagging off? I take it as a compliment. Bourgeois and proud of it. (BTW I've corrected your spelling of bourgeois). I tried proletarian early on and didn't like it .. bad food, bad sex, bad music, awful wallpaper..

It's my privately held view (this is a rare public airing) that in the post-war years British politics have turned themselves on their head. The Thatcher revolution showed that the working class was no longer (if it ever was anywhere other than in the fantasies of the left) the progressive class. Thatcherite values are the core values of the new British proletariat - selfishness, greed, racism, wilful ignorance, philistinism, militarism, nationalism, imperialism, homophobia, misogyny, distrust of education - and if there is a progressive element in our society, it lies within the bourgeoisie. Educated folk, who think, and treat each other with respect. After all, Stephen Lawrence wasn't killed by a lawyer, a stage-set designer, a newspaper editor and an aromatherapist, was he? No, he was killed by plumbers, hod-carriers, white van men.

That's wot I fink anyway.
(Thinks: that should keep this paltry little thread chuntering on for a couple of days more.. Might get a Longest Thread of the Year award..)

Very similar to the loonies in the RCP.

 

[Batboy]

No apologies necessary. I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings and that of your 'many others'. ffs don't go on the bloody march then, agitate and organise these 'many others' you keep rambling on about and then go for a 'beano' with them (I alway's liked the Bash Street kids myself ).

To be honest marches no longer work (Unless the principles of momentum are in place). Direct action is more effective.

But none of it works if it is under the banner of SWP.

Your up for banning political groups (even those that organised the thing in the first place?) I take it?

you know I never said that..

Try Man City, LETTSA will give you the details.

I aint that bored!

 

[redsquirrel]

Well Badger Kittens certainly got enougth stuff for her next article anyway.

 

[treelover]

what article, is she a journo?

 

[redsquirrel]

what article, is she a journo?

No, never how dare you suggest such a thing. She's not a journalist, not at all, no way.

 

[changingman]

No, never how dare you suggest such a thing. She's not a journalist, not at all, no way.

Nor business student. This is like "What's my Line?" on the telly when i was a kid. Is she hiding behind the partition? Or am I getting confused with Juke Box Jury?

 

[audiotech]

To be honest marches no longer work (Unless the principles of momentum are in place). Direct action is more effective.

Marches may not change government policy, but they can serve as an irritant to those it's directed against. It reminds those in power that an opposition exists. People who regard such protests as pointless should imagine how much happier ministers would be if they never had to face them. Any examples on how "effective direct action" has influenced those in power to end this war? I would prefer to see a million people marching rather than a handful of self-appointed glory seekers on a mission.

you know I never said that..

It was implied with the "keep the fringe groups out" comment.

 

[Pickman's model]

Marches may not change government policy, but they can serve as an irritant to those it's directed against. It reminds those in power that an opposition exists. People who regard such protests as pointless should imagine how much happier ministers would be if they never had to face them. Any examples on how "effective direct action" has influenced those in power to end this war? I would prefer to see a million people marching rather than a handful of self-appointed glory seekers on a mission.

and when a million doesn't have any effect? and when that million becomes a handful?

people protest in different ways - some people think that marches are effective D) and some people feel that their protest is better registered through the use of other tactics. frankly, direct action usually has a much better chance of getting the goods than some fuckwitt'd shuffle from a>b. just because da hasn't stopp'd this conflict doesn't mean that it is a foolish idea. marches certainly haven't stopp'd the fucking war, & so i'd prefer to see the fucking end of some fucking self-appointed gloryhunting trots organising another excursion for their foul organisations.

 

[audiotech]

and when a million doesn't have any effect? and when that million becomes a handful?

Still an irritant. When some political hack turns up for a photo-op I somehow doubt that going through their mind at the time is the thought: 'Oh I do hope I have a howling posse giving me grief today.' They would prefer to put on a stupid grin and shake hands with some local dignatory than face any opposition.

people protest in different ways - some people think that marches are effective D) and some people feel that their protest is better registered through the use of other tactics. frankly, direct action usually has a much better chance of getting the goods than some fuckwitt'd shuffle from a>b. just because da hasn't stopp'd this conflict doesn't mean that it is a foolish idea. marches certainly haven't stopp'd the fucking war, & so i'd prefer to see the fucking end of some fucking self-appointed gloryhunting trots organising another excursion for their foul organisations.

People do protest in different ways, but I don't see how a few people involved in direct action compares with action involving a million. The million people who marched against the Iraq war didn't stop the damn thing, but it demonstrated to the government that a massive opposition was out there against it and who were prepared to come out onto the streets to make that known.

The powers that be still understand that and no doubt a few in the cabinet would like to see an early exit from this debacle. Let's also remind ourselves, that a leading candidate for the Tory leadership has clearly been influenced by the opposition to the war. Also, pound to a penny it will make them think twice before they make another decision along the same lines.

 

[Badger Kitten]

No, never how dare you suggest such a thing. She's not a journalist, not at all, no way.

Ha. Just saw this.


Sigh.


I'm not a journalist, but I have been writing. And guess what? I seem to have a freat deal of material. One would almost think there was enough going on in my life without me having to troll the politic and protest forum of U75 for ideas.


But you know, if I ever decide a) to be a full time journo and b) decide I need to get ideas from red squirrel instead of having my own, I'll be sure to credit you, sunshine.