Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

stop the war demo, 24 sept & politicos on the piss

Nigel Irritable said:
I'm not sure why that's confusing. Exploitation is at the heart of oppression under capitalism but it isn't the only form it takes. I'm as fond of taking a pop at SWPers as the next man, but is Rebel Warrior really getting a hard time here for arguing that there is such a thing as racism?
no, he's getting a hard time because he's full of shit and unable to put a coherent argument together - the usual, you know.
 
oisleep said:
so why in your example assert that a black person is more likely to be oppressed than a white person

Because it is true? I was just highlighting that racism exists towards immigrants whatever their colour as well.
 
Nigel Irritable said:
I'm not sure why that's confusing. Exploitation is at the heart of oppression under capitalism but it isn't the only form it takes. I'm as fond of taking a pop at SWPers as the next man, but is Rebel Warrior really getting a hard time here for arguing that there is such a thing as racism?

RW is getting a hard time because he seems to suggest that
racism is the primary drive/devide of our society.He seems to think that when marx said-"Hitherto, every form of society has been based, as we have already seen, on the antagonism of oppressing and oppressed classes."that he was talking about 'racism' not class society.
Anyone who disagrees with him/RUC etc is a racist.
He throws this around like confetee, and cheapens the word( its already cheap enough unfountunely).
He also seems to think that muslems are a race, and to say otherwise is racist.And also to have a critic of islam that is not always favable is a racist and should be put in the re-education camp.
Also he gets a hard time because he's full of shit and tries to give his oppuntanist project a left wing cover.and gives left wing/working class politics a bad name.
 
mattkidd12 said:
How many of the 15,000 voters were "pawn shop owners, employers, slumlords and other profiteers" I wonder?

Wondering is what you'll have to do, until your party starts to actually tell you about which classes it gets support from. We already know that rich businessmen, conservative religious leaders and other opponents of workers' control support Respect.
 
oisleep said:
so why in your example assert that a black person is more likely to be oppressed than a white person

Because of their clear identity and because black people are often easy targets for simplistic solutions. Even today it is clear that in general terms the colour of a persons skin is an important and visible indicator of an individuals life chances.
 
mattkidd12 said:
:D I thought you said you weren't going?
i don't need to. i could write it now if i really wanted. the only reason to wait till saturday is to give the report an air of verisimilitude by getting the weather right.
 
mattkidd12 said:
What's your prediction for numbers?
let's remember first of all that rebel warrior will claim 100,000 regardless of the actual figure.

i dunno, let's say 20,000, a figure to be revised in light of how easy it is to get a drink in the nearest pub after the march.
 
james_walsh said:
RW is getting a hard time because he seems to suggest that
racism is the primary drive/devide of our society.He seems to think that when marx said-"Hitherto, every form of society has been based, as we have already seen, on the antagonism of oppressing and oppressed classes."that he was talking about 'racism' not class society.

You should go back and read Karl Marx, Jimmy as you don't seem to grasp his writings.

Marx argued that British workers must agitate tirelessly against anti-Irish racism, because it was being used by the ruling class to divide and rule the workers.

In France, there was an anti-semitic hysteria whipped up over a Jewish army officer called Dreyfus who was framed up as a spy.

When Socialists like Emile Zola defended this officer they were attacked by the James Walsh's of the day (who didn't grasp how anti-semitism was being used by the rulers) who said socialists can't defend Dreyfus, he's not working class, it has nothing to do with us.

But REAL socialists grasped that fighting anti-semitism was a central task and won scores of Jewish workers in the process to socialism.

If James Walsh, doesn't understand how racism is a tool used by the ruling class against the ruled, that's his problem
 
Udo Erasmus said:
In France, there was an anti-semitic hysteria whipped up over a Jewish army officer called Dreyfus who was framed up as a spy.
where did marx write about that? some sort of weeja board?
 
Udo Erasmus said:
Marx argued that British workers must agitate tirelessly against anti-Irish racism, because it was being used by the ruling class to divide and rule the workers.

He didn't say that people should be anti-racist at the expense of class politics, however.

Plus, many of those who defended Dreyfuss, such as the parliamentarian Celmencau went on to become butchers of socielism, Clem being premier during the French attempt to squash the Russian Revolution.

All of which makes me thing that, by all means take part in anti-racist movements, but remember that many of your short-term 'friends' may shortly become your deadliest enemies -- because of fundamental disagreements about who should run society.
 
Udo Erasmus why don't you fuck off back to theology class.

or you telling me Marx didn't say that that history of all previous society was the history of class struggle?The reason you tossers call your selfs leninists is because marx does support your oppunist positions. Reread the communist manifesto and try and understand it, not just mouth the words.
 
Back
Top Bottom