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Stockwell cop kills again - BBC

Loath as I am to support the police in most disputes, I'm nearly 100% behind the resident boy-in-blue/ plainclothes.

Perhaps if Attica hadn't crippled himself in some bizarre anarchist mime festival recently, the good people of this board wouldn't be subjected to quite so much of his deluded and multi-coloured ramblings.

Get better soon, you demented loon: the streets are calling.
 
Bob_the_lost said:
You never read your posts and wonder why you've lost the class war then?

Belive me, no one else wonders about that after reading them.

I do read my posts and I post consistently with a particular 'line' - and I haven't lost nothing pal:p :D

If you can't understand a basic humanist argument then that is your problem and not mine.

You go stick your head back up the next pigs arse you meet:eek: :D
 
Sean said:
Loath as I am to support the police in most disputes, I'm nearly 100% behind the resident boy-in-blue/ plainclothes.

Perhaps if Attica hadn't crippled himself in some bizarre anarchist mime festival recently, the good people of this board wouldn't be subjected to quite so much of his deluded and multi-coloured ramblings.

Get better soon, you demented loon: the streets are calling.

WTF are U on about? Have you lost all critical faculty? You're sooo willing to accept the status quo argument its shocking...
 
Attica said:
WTF are U on about? Have you lost all critical faculty? You're sooo willing to accept the status quo argument its shocking...
You want critical faculty? You really want someone to point out just how many flaws and flat out shovels of bullock manure you've stuck up on this thread so far masquerading as arguement and logic? :D

The police Killer intended harm to no-one in particular, but he/she knew his/her acts were likely to kill someone,
Wrong, but then again you don't care about the numbers do you. Fatal police shootings being even rarer than sober anarchists.

and once someone is killed, the victim is someones brother/sister/father/son etc.
Yes, the act of death forges familial relations.
Our police killer cannot claim that s/he was not her/himself. His/her act is done, ordinarily not out of passion, but of cool reckoning - AND PRECISELY HERE HIS/HER EVIL SHOWS.
I would say i lost any respect for you when you stuck in the word evil, but i'd be lying.

In the willingness to jeopardise the lives of unspecified and unknown others who pose no random threat in order to 'get the job done' and ensure 'just deserts' s/he shows their general disdain for all human beings. We are left with no moral basis for treating police shootings as less evil than murderers such as Fred West.
Summary: Armed policemen go out knowing that their actions may result in someone's death, and so are murderers, because they might kill someone in future.

Don't breed, please.
 
Bob_the_lost said:
You want critical faculty? You really want someone to point out just how many flaws and flat out shovels of bullock manure you've stuck up on this thread so far masquerading as arguement and logic? :D

You can't you loser:p :eek: :D

Here it is again - and this goes for police killers throughout western Europe, and USA...

The police Killer intended harm to no-one in particular, but he/she knew his/her acts were likely to kill someone, and once someone is killed, the victim is someones brother/sister/father/son etc. Our police killer cannot claim that s/he was not her/himself. His/her act is done, ordinarily not out of passion, but of cool reckoning - AND PRECISELY HERE HIS/HER EVIL SHOWS.

In the willingness to jeopardise the lives of unspecified and unknown others who pose no random threat in order to 'get the job done' and ensure 'just deserts' s/he shows their general disdain for all human beings. We are left with no moral basis for treating police shootings as less evil than murderers such as Fred West.
 
invisibleplanet said:
You have no idea where this guy was trained, do you Attica?
Doh!

Somebody sets out knowing that they could kill somebody is as culpable as any other murderer - its just that you're so full of ruling class ideology that you can't accept that the police are as evil as any other deliberate murderer -cos that is what they do... This is basic analysis, its not even difficult and the usual liberals on U75 get uppity when a genuine radical position is articulated...:p :D
 
Attica said:
Somebody sets out knowing that they could kill somebody is as culpable as any other murderer
I could kill someone with my bare hands, hell most people can. It's even easier to do with a car or some reheated chineese food. Are you saying that anyone who doesn't reheat their takeaways properly should go down for life sentences?
 
Bob_the_lost said:
I could kill someone with my bare hands, hell most people can. It's even easier to do with a car or some reheated chineese food. Are you saying that anyone who doesn't reheat their takeaways properly should go down for life sentences?

No. Just the police.:eek: :eek: :eek: :D
 
JHE said:
Where's that then? :confused:


The police Killer intended harm to no-one in particular, but he/she knew his/her acts were likely to kill someone, and once someone is killed, the victim is someones brother/sister/father/son etc. Our police killer cannot claim that s/he was not her/himself. His/her act is done, ordinarily not out of passion, but of cool reckoning - AND PRECISELY HERE HIS/HER EVIL SHOWS.

In the willingness to jeopardise the lives of unspecified and unknown others who pose no random threat in order to 'get the job done' and ensure 'just deserts' s/he shows their general disdain for all human beings. We are left with no moral basis for treating police shootings as less evil than murderers such as Fred West.
 
must be a strong tip off they recieved so someone will have to keep looking over their shoulder
 
lostexpectation said:
I will bow to you superior knowledge in this case but what about the idea of crime prevention. literally.
It is a valid issue. I have outlined my reasoning (and experience) for why I believe that it is necessary / better to (usually) allow a robbery to proceed and then intercept the suspects as they attempt to make off but I acknowledge that there is a very strong argument against that tactic.
 
shagnasty said:
must be a strong tip off they recieved so someone will have to keep looking over their shoulder
That is a huge issue (especially since the disclosure provisions of the Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996 came in). The police have the Human Rights of the informant (if there is one) to consider as well. It is another reason why making sure they have the suspects arrested in circumstances where they are likely to stay arrested for a long time (ie. for robbery, not lesser offences and not for the risky charge of conspiracy) is important.
 
Attica said:
Somebody sets out knowing that they could kill somebody is as culpable as any other murderer -

Do I take it you feel the same way about soldiers?

Or bad car drivers.
 
If you are speeding and you kill someone ... I'd say that's pretty close to dropping a brick off a motorway bridge, for which I think you can get a murder conviction.

The issue of course is one of 'lawfulness', i.e. what society wants individual people to be allowed to do.

I think most people want the police to be allowed to shoot a dangerous criminal in circumstances where the only alternative is to let the criminal kill someone else. The question is, how does a copper who may believe his/her life is in danger establish who is/not a dangerous criminal in various circumstances. And how is the public protected against bad cops.
 
Attica said:
We are left with no moral basis for treating police shootings as less evil than murderers such as Fred West.

Yeah, rrrrrrradical!

But hang on a mo'. What's wrong with Fred West? He rejected bourgeois morality and legality. He's a political prisoner. Brigadier Attica, can't you send your Brigade to free him?
 
detective-boy said:
It is a valid issue. I have outlined my reasoning (and experience) for why I believe that it is necessary / better to (usually) allow a robbery to proceed and then intercept the suspects as they attempt to make off but I acknowledge that there is a very strong argument against that tactic.


if they know so much about the planned robbery why not arrest these people when there is much less chance that gunplay will be involved when the guy is going down to the local shops for a pint of milk... ok he may have a gun on him thne too but he won't have it in his hand at the place of crime with adrenaline...
 
Attica said:
If you can't understand a basic humanist argument then that is your problem and not mine.

You go stick your head back up the next pigs arse you meet:eek: :D

aaahhhh..... so that's what a humanist argument looks like......
 
lostexpectation said:
if they know so much about the planned robbery why not arrest these people when there is much less chance that gunplay will be involved when the guy is going down to the local shops for a pint of milk... ok he may have a gun on him thne too but he won't have it in his hand at the place of crime with adrenaline...
Because intelligence is not evidence. Knowing something is not the same as being able to prove it (and, going by the posts on numerous previous threads, unless you can prove something in a criminal court, it isn't true and doesn't exist).

If it could be done, it would be done. But unfortunately, experience over the last 25 years is that it can't. Juries will believe anything ... and with a conspiracy charge it is dead easy to claim that things have been misinterpreted.

(Example: Info received from oridinary member of public about man acting suspiciously watching Post Office cash delivery. Observation on next two weeks confirms this - nothing criminal but clearly lurking around watching how the delivery happens. No idea as to identity and suveillance fails to identify him. On third week, delivery is robbed. Interception is ordered but due to radio failure is delayed by a few seconds and getaway vehicle drives off. During pursuit shots are fired at police and police fire back (no-one hit on either side). Following chase, two suspects arrested nearby (with members of public witnessing the whole thing and confirming police account) with large handgun and bag of money. No comment made in interviews. Charged with robbery, etc. Defence get up in Court and say "We thought this was a police training exercise. We were informants (they had previous for robbery) and we thought we were just helping them out. No evidence to corroborate this ridiculous claim. Guilty or Not guilty? Not guilty. :rolleyes: )
 
JHE said:
Yeah, rrrrrrradical!

But hang on a mo'. What's wrong with Fred West? He rejected bourgeois morality and legality. He's a political prisoner. Brigadier Attica, can't you send your Brigade to free him?

That's Stirnirite individualism - I promote a class analysis of law and its enforcers:D :D
 
detective-boy said:
Because intelligence is not evidence. Knowing something is not the same as being able to prove it (and, going by the posts on numerous previous threads, unless you can prove something in a criminal court, it isn't true and doesn't exist).

If it could be done, it would be done. But unfortunately, experience over the last 25 years is that it can't. Juries will believe anything ... and with a conspiracy charge it is dead easy to claim that things have been misinterpreted.

(Example: Info received from oridinary member of public about man acting suspiciously watching Post Office cash delivery. Observation on next two weeks confirms this - nothing criminal but clearly lurking around watching how the delivery happens. No idea as to identity and suveillance fails to identify him. On third week, delivery is robbed. Interception is ordered but due to radio failure is delayed by a few seconds and getaway vehicle drives off. During pursuit shots are fired at police and police fire back (no-one hit on either side). Following chase, two suspects arrested nearby (with members of public witnessing the whole thing and confirming police account) with large handgun and bag of money. No comment made in interviews. Charged with robbery, etc. Defence get up in Court and say "We thought this was a police training exercise. We were informants (they had previous for robbery) and we thought we were just helping them out. No evidence to corroborate this ridiculous claim. Guilty or Not guilty? Not guilty. :rolleyes: )

So?! Your lot have banged up enough innocents as it is!! You can't have everything your own way - I have thort for a long time that pigs need to lighten up:p :D :D
 
detective-boy said:
It is a valid issue. I have outlined my reasoning (and experience) for why I believe that it is necessary / better to (usually) allow a robbery to proceed and then intercept the suspects as they attempt to make off but I acknowledge that there is a very strong argument against that tactic.


Ha ha! So you agree with what I say!! There is no need to kill people...
 
if someone takes a sawn off to work at 8.00pm - when this incident happened, I believe - he's not using it to deter employees behind the counter from holding out, or encouraging them to comply - laregly because said employees are at home watching The Bill on tv.

He is, however, using the sawn-off to deter the old bill from doing their job, that's the whole purpose of the sawn-off in that partic situation. An orrmament it ain't.


Nor are they good folks, nor do they care who gets in the way, nor are they Robin Hoods, or class warriors. They are, however, extremely nasty cunts - imo, of course.



From the link in the opening post:

"The dead man was named as Mr Haines by the Independent Police Complaints Commission, which is investigating the circumstances of the shooting.

He was injured at about 2000 GMT and died later at the William Harvey Hospital, in Ashford. "
 
London_Calling said:
if someone takes a sawn off to work at 8.00pm - when this incident happened, I believe - he's not using it to deter employees behind the counter from holding out, or encouraging them to comply - laregly because said employees are at home watching The Bill on tv.

He is, however, using the sawn-off to deter the old bill from doing their job, that's the whole purpose of the sawn-off in that partic situation. An orrmament it ain't.


Nor are they good folks, nor do they care who gets in the way, nor are they Robin Hoods, or class warriors. They are, however, extremely nasty cunts - imo, of course.



From the link in the opening post:

"The dead man was named as Mr Haines by the Independent Police Complaints Commission, which is investigating the circumstances of the shooting.

He was injured at about 2000 GMT and died later at the William Harvey Hospital, in Ashford. "

Bullshit - an Uzi is the weapon of choice for somebody interested in serious deterrance...
 
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